Science and Technology news... :: View topic - FWD: Man pleads guilty to aiding Chinese space program

OM · Guest

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

....Hang the bastard :-P

OM

--

]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let>s face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

Neil Gerace · Guest

On Nov 18, 3:46 pm, nem <nem@nospam> wrote:

[quote]Because as Lenin said, "The capitalists will all fight to be the first to
sell us the rope we will use to hang them."
[/quote]
"We own all your weapons, we own all your shoes
We own all your generals, touch us and you>ll lose: MORPORKIA!"

nem · Guest

OM <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in news:

[quote]http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html
[/quote]
Reminds me of old Bernie Schwartz, the guy who gave missile technology to
the Chinese so he could save money on launching his communications
satellites. But since Bernie Schwartz was a major DNC donor, nothing
happened to him. What did happen was that the Chinese were now able to
point missiles at the west coast of the US.

Because as Lenin said, "The capitalists will all fight to be the first to
sell us the rope we will use to hang them."

BradGuth · Guest

On Nov 17, 10:49 pm, Neil Gerace <gera...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 18, 3:46 pm, nem <nem@nospam> wrote:

Because as Lenin said, "The capitalists will all fight to be the first to
sell us the rope we will use to hang them."

"We own all your weapons, we own all your shoes
We own all your generals, touch us and you>ll lose: MORPORKIA!"
[/quote]
For every one item of supposed theft from us, we stole at least 10 of
China>s.

Now it>s their turn at the helm, but only if India will let them.

~ BG

BradGuth · Guest

On Nov 18, 6:00 am, "Alan Erskine" <alan.ersk...@bigpond.com> wrote:
[quote]"OM" <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in message

news:a8l4i49kqenmmblr5ov3jlj79pul500ghn@4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

Typical; China can>t do anything original - all they can do is copy others.
[/quote]
If it wasn>t for China, you would not likely exist, though I supposed
we>d all be better off if most of us never existed.

~ BG

BradGuth · Guest

On Nov 18, 6:47 am, "Bresco" <bre...@mixmaster.org> wrote:
[quote]"Alan Erskine" <alan.ersk...@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:YTzUk.16107$sc2.3167@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"OM" <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in message
news:a8l4i49kqenmmblr5ov3jlj79pul500ghn@4ax.com...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

Typical; China can>t do anything original - all they can do is copy
others.

That>s the same thing we said about the Japanese.
[/quote]
It>s the same thing we say about every other nation on Earth, and
it>ll be the same as we>re going to say about ETs (especially of those
on Venus).

~ BG

mholt@ohiohills.com · Guest

On Nov 18, 9:22 am, "Jeff Findley" <jeff.find...@ugs.nojunk.com>
wrote:
[quote]
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

I wonder why the news story doesn>t mention the name of the "client firm"
that bribed him.
[/quote]
If anyone hears the name, tell us.

[quote]A lot of companies now have remote development sites in China. Does this
sound like a smart idea? It seems to me that it would make industrial
espionage that much easier. Warnings to upper management fall on deaf ears
since people in China cost a lot less than people here. Gotta love the
group think of large corporations... NOT! :-P
[/quote]
Corporations have no morals in the sense that we understand the
concept. Once one accepts that premise, much of what they do becomes
logical.

I understand -- to some extent -- why someone might give things to
other space programs. The American program is in chaos and lacking
direction, and has been that way since Apollo was cancelled. Someone
who wants to be supportive of success might not expend all their
resources on the American effort.

BradGuth · Guest

On Nov 18, 8:03 am, "mh...@ohiohills.com" <mh...@ohiohills.com> wrote:
[quote]On Nov 18, 9:22 am, "Jeff Findley" <jeff.find...@ugs.nojunk.com
wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

I wonder why the news story doesn>t mention the name of the "client firm"
that bribed him.

If anyone hears the name, tell us.

A lot of companies now have remote development sites in China. Does this
sound like a smart idea? It seems to me that it would make industrial
espionage that much easier. Warnings to upper management fall on deaf ears
since people in China cost a lot less than people here. Gotta love the
group think of large corporations... NOT! :-P

Corporations have no morals in the sense that we understand the
concept. Once one accepts that premise, much of what they do becomes
logical.

I understand -- to some extent -- why someone might give things to
other space programs. The American program is in chaos and lacking
direction, and has been that way since Apollo was cancelled. Someone
who wants to be supportive of success might not expend all their
resources on the American effort.
[/quote]
The "American effort" has been a festering cesspool of mutually
perpetrated cold-war lies upon lies. If you want to see good and
relatively productive things happen within your lifetime, means
outsourcing.

~ BG

Alan Erskine · Guest

"OM" <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in message
news:a8l4i49kqenmmblr5ov3jlj79pul500ghn@4ax.com...
[quote]http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html
[/quote]
Typical; China can>t do anything original - all they can do is copy others.

Jeff Findley · Guest

"OM" <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in message
news:a8l4i49kqenmmblr5ov3jlj79pul500ghn@4ax.com...
[quote]http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

...Hang the bastard :-P
[/quote]
I wonder why the news story doesn>t mention the name of the "client firm"
that bribed him.

A lot of companies now have remote development sites in China. Does this
sound like a smart idea? It seems to me that it would make industrial
espionage that much easier. Warnings to upper management fall on deaf ears
since people in China cost a lot less than people here. Gotta love the
group think of large corporations... NOT! :-P

Jeff
--
beb - To paraphrase Stephen Colbert, reality has an anti-Ares I bias.

Bresco · Guest

"Alan Erskine" <alan.erskine@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:YTzUk.16107$sc2.3167@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
[quote]"OM" <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in message
news:a8l4i49kqenmmblr5ov3jlj79pul500ghn@4ax.com...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

Typical; China can>t do anything original - all they can do is copy
others.

[/quote]
That>s the same thing we said about the Japanese.

Pat Flannery · Guest

Alan Erskine wrote:
[quote]Typical; China can>t do anything original - all they can do is copy others.

[/quote]
They used to say that about Japan also.
Or, as my college history professor, Dr. Hong, said in our "Modern
Japan" class:
"Japan copy things... but when Japan copy, they do better."
We found their Zero to be a interesting copy of our P-35...to put in mildly.

Pat

Martha Adams · Guest

<mholt@ohiohills.com> wrote in message
news:9262e373-245e-4da1-acf2-9bef0b370b26@o4g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Nov 18, 9:22 am, "Jeff Findley" <jeff.find...@ugs.nojunk.com
wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

I wonder why the news story doesn>t mention the name of the "client
firm"
that bribed him.

If anyone hears the name, tell us.

A lot of companies now have remote development sites in China. Does
this
sound like a smart idea? It seems to me that it would make
industrial
espionage that much easier. Warnings to upper management fall on
deaf ears
since people in China cost a lot less than people here. Gotta love
the
group think of large corporations... NOT! :-P

Corporations have no morals in the sense that we understand the
concept. Once one accepts that premise, much of what they do becomes
logical.

I understand -- to some extent -- why someone might give things to
other space programs. The American program is in chaos and lacking
direction, and has been that way since Apollo was cancelled. Someone
who wants to be supportive of success might not expend all their
resources on the American effort.
[/quote]
I think this thread is onto a very very serious topic. If you
want to put it into spectacular words, I>d suggest "Now we are
choosing the language to be spoken across the Solar System,
beginning a few decades from now. Will it be American English
or Chinese Mandarin?"

As for this current stuff about the Chinese, I>m convinced they
are not nice people (ref Tiananmen Square). But their not-nice
doesn>t seem to me to conflict at all with the reality that they
are competitors. I don>t know to what degree they are thinking,
that was a really bad mistake back in 1421 and we certainly won>t
do *that* again. Rather we>ll get out there and *compete*. And
that>s what they are doing.

(Besides, we have done the Chinese 1421 error well enough all by
ourselves. Now that Bush is out, will that change? I>d like to
see it but I haven>t a lot of confidence it actually happens.)

There>s an awfully good book around that touches on this same
topic. Paperback, copyright 2000. Buzz Aldrin and John Barnes,
The Return. You can look at the authornames and ask yourself, do
these people know what they are talking about? What that they
know and can>t tell, wound up in this book sort-of between the
lines? So I think for anyone who feels concerned about this
thread>s topic, this is a book to find and read and to add to
the personal library, asap, i.e., ASAP.

I>d like to feel the optimism in reality I see in this book, but
I can>t bring myself to that.

Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Nov 19]

Pat Flannery · Guest

Jeff Findley wrote:
[quote]"OM" <om@up_yours_elfritz_you_nazi.com> wrote in message
news:a8l4i49kqenmmblr5ov3jlj79pul500ghn@4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/17/china.us/index.html

...Hang the bastard :-P

I wonder why the news story doesn>t mention the name of the "client firm"
that bribed him.

[/quote]
I went over to AMAC>s website...the company they were supposed to have
used as a middleman is French according to the Justice Department
release; and as you can see from this webpage:
http://www.amacintl.com/Trade.html
....AMAC does business with a lot of foreign companies.
One company that isn>t on the current page is this French one...which
makes hydrogen liquefaction equipment:
http://www.amacintl.com/AL-DTA.html
And they do business in China:
http://www.cn.airliquide.com/en/who-we-are/air-liquide-in.html
So I think that may be the company in question.
Air Liquide is a _very_ big international company, and to get sucked
into something like this for only a four million dollar contract was a
very dumb move on their part, if they are indeed the company involved.

Pat

Jan Vorbrüggen · Guest

[quote]One company that isn>t on the current page is this French one...which
makes hydrogen liquefaction equipment:
http://www.amacintl.com/AL-DTA.html
And they do business in China:
http://www.cn.airliquide.com/en/who-we-are/air-liquide-in.html
So I think that may be the company in question.
[/quote]
Are you saying gas liiquefaction equipment and services is in any way
sensitive technology?! Why, Linde>s patents must have expired more than
a hundred years ago.

Or are you saying that they did something on the side, outside of their
core business, in this particular case?

Jan


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