Science and Technology news... :: View topic - Food shortage ethanol follies, I>ve planted a food garden.

Kurt Ullman · Guest

In article <slrng15bgh.1pq.don@manx.misty.com>,
don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

[quote]Hogs get fat from high calorie intake. Keep in mind that when the low
carb craze was expanding, America>s waistlines and diabetes rates
continued expanding.

But that is a function of market share than anything else. The low[/quote]
carb "craze" still did not come close to involving even a plurality of
the entire citizenry or even large minority. Never have seen a
study/survey, etc., indicating that more than 20% or so of obese (or
even just overweight)) Americans were on ANY diet. So, the amount of
newsprint generated by a diet, doesn>t really have any correlation with
how many people are on it.

HeyBub · Guest

Rod Speed wrote:
[quote]
"Mr. Sen is famous for his assertion that famines do not occur in
democracies. "No famine has ever taken place in the history of the
world in a functioning democracy," he wrote in 'Democracy as
Freedom'."

He>s just plain wrong.

For this sort of thinking, Amartya Kumar Sen was awarded the 1998
Nobel Prize in Economics.

Nope, not for that steaming turd he wasnt.
[/quote]
Uh, yes. For exactly that:

"Amartya Kumar Sen is an economist best known for his work on famine, Human
development theory, welfare economics, and the underlying causes of poverty
and hunger. When the world was talking of free market economy, Prof. Sen
emphasised the need for giving a human face to development. Amartya Sen is
one of those few economists who talk of political economy of hunger. He
received the ... Noble prize for economics... for his work in mathematical
economics in 1998."

[quote]
If you have an alternative to the assertion, please share it with us.

Just did.
[/quote]
Okay, show us a famine that has ever taken place in the history of the world
in a functioning democracy. There have been food shortages in democracies,
true. There may have even been widespread hunger. But never a famine.

The ball>s in your court. Instead of flatly denying what many can
demonstrate as an obvious truth, show us an example.

Just one.

[quote]
As you can see, hydrocarbons account for 2.48 CMOs,

But oil and gas doesnt dominate electric power generation. You are
wrong.
[/quote]
I said "hydrocarbons."

Electric power generation in the United States by source:
Coal - 50%
Natural gas - 18%
Oil - 3%
Total hydrocarbons - 71%
Nuclear - 20%
Hydropower - 7%
http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=360

[quote]
Nuclear for a tiny fraction, probably even less than the use of
charcoal.

Not in some countrys like France and Japan.
[/quote]
France generates 78% of its electricity from nuclear.

Japan is a little different (Japan alone accounts for half of Australia>s
coal exports)
Coal - 19%
Oil - 18%
Natural gas - 20%
Total hydrocarbon - 57%
Nuclear - 32%

Both France and Japan have substantial generation capability using nuclear
energy.

[quote]
Heh! Ronald Reagan said that those who say there are no simple
solutions have just not tried hard enough.

And he ended up with Alzhiemers. You>re well along that line.
[/quote]
Can>t find fault with the message, so attack the messenger. Such
argumentation techniques demonstrate the paucity of arguments.

[quote]
Do you realize that over 40% of our offshore potential can>t even be
explored or tested?

That aint the easiest to find, stupid.
[/quote]
You>re correct. The "easiest" to find is that which seeps out of the ground
as in Titusville, Pennsylvania in 1859 or the La Brea Tar Pits today, or
where seams of coal break the surface. Offshore exploration is, however,
almost trivial. The company I worked for, Western Geophysical, was selling
offshore seismic survey results at $20/mile in the Gulf of Mexico. Of course
that was back when $20 was a lot of money - they>re probably charging $30
today.

[quote]
And you completely mangled that claim about oil and gas and
electricity generation.
[/quote]
I never said "oil and gas." I said "hydrocarbons." Hydrocarbons account for
83% of the world>s energy use (not just electricity) - 71% in the U.S.

I may no longer be in the oil bidness (as we say in Texas), but I remember
the difference between "hydrocarbons" and "oil and gas."

HeyBub · Guest

Don Klipstein wrote:
[quote]
I would encourange gardening to combat the inflation in
whatever/whoever is increasing the size of their slices of the pie.

[/quote]
Gardening works if it attracts rabbits.

Remember, vegetables are not food; vegetables are what food eats.

Guest

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrng15bgh.1pq.don@manx.misty.com...
[quote]In article <4811a037$0$30226$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, h wrote:

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrng12a9m.dk4.don@manx.misty.com...
In article <4810d69e$0$30157$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, h wrote:

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ydWdnS3VDu63Ko3VnZ2dnUVZ_uadnZ2d@comcast.com...
Frank wrote:
U.S. Rice is abundant. We grow twice as much rice as we eat. Sam>s
Club
is rationing only ethnic rice. Ordinary long-grain, white rice is
cheaper than dirt - take as much as you want.

That maybe the case in your area, but we couldn>t find any either at
the
local Sam>s Club or Costco stores. No Texas long grain or other type
of
rice. I>d checked Costo again yesterday, the shelves were empty of
rice
as usual for the last few weeks, lots of beans though, LOL. Rice
prices
are very high and if I>m not mistaken, it has already triple for the
year.
What we are seeing is the result of deciding to grind up food (corn,
grains, rice) to make ethanol to keep the SUVs going without planning
where that extra food will come from. At least we have alternatives
here.
How about the people in poor countries who depend on rice for food but
we
bought it to make ethanol?

But...are there really people in the US who still eat lots of grains,
corn,
and rice? As a low-carber with a gluten sensitivity, I can>t imagine
that
stuff fed to anything but livestock.

The low carb craze has increased grain demands by increasing demand for
livestock. Ethanol demand came in time to rescue grain farmers from the
decline of the low carb craze.

Wow. Eating a healthy diet is now a "craze"? You are aware that the hog
fattening diet is exactly the same as the USDA>s food pyramid except for
one
more serving of grain, right? Yeah, eating grain is good for you. Right.
That>s why so many Americans are orca fat.

Hogs get fat from high calorie intake. Keep in mind that when the low
carb craze was expanding, America>s waistlines and diabetes rates
continued expanding.
[/quote]
It>s not a "craze". It>s been around forever. I stopped eating all grains in
my 20s, when I discovered my gluten sensitivity. If I ate wheat I got
asthma, if I didn>t I was fine. I had already stopped eating most other
carbs because I would crash after eating them. I had never heard of "Atkins"
at the time. It was just healthy, proper eating. I>m now in my 50s and I
weigh the same as I did in my 20s. I>ve gained an inch or two since my
ballet dancer days, but muscle weighs more than fat, and I only exercise an
hour a day these days, so I>m not as fit as I was then. Still, I have more
energy than any carb guzzler half my age.

The type of calories DO matter, not just the amount. A 1,000 low carb
calorie diet of will cause anyone to lose weight, while a 1,000 high carb
calorie diet will cause most people to gain weight, exercising or not. Plus,
they>ll be tired and feel hungry all the time.

Also, I have NEVER met someone who didn>t lose a LOT of weight on any low
carb diet. The problem is that they go back to their "normal" diet of sugar
poison and gain it all back. Low carbing is something that should be done
for a lifetime, not just to dump some weight. If every type II diabetic cut
carbs from his or her diet today, most of them would be symptom free in a
few weeks. Fat doesn>t make you fat. Sugar makes you fat.

Smitty Two · Guest

In article <uP-dnTdAr4ZNqI7VnZ2dnUVZ_uKpnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

[quote]Don Klipstein wrote:

I would encourange gardening to combat the inflation in
whatever/whoever is increasing the size of their slices of the pie.

Gardening works if it attracts rabbits.

Remember, vegetables are not food; vegetables are what food eats.
[/quote]
Sounds like my favorite bumper sticker: "If we>re not supposed to eat
animals, why are they made of meat?"

SMS · Guest

Phred wrote:
[quote]In article <5fSdnfr6-eZuy4_VnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, "HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
In article <-cadne-FwOfHI4zVnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
Current technology does not favor "grass" type crops, including
hemp, 'switch-grass' and others. The problem is the enormous cost of
transporting the raw materials to the processing plant.
Have fun explaining how come sugar cane works fine.
Sugar cane is not a "grass" type crop - Duh!

Hey Bub, I>m afraid you>ve left me a bit confused. Sugar cane is a
grass, so I don>t see what you>re getting at here.
[/quote]
Yes, it is a grass, and it>s also one of the most efficient photo
synthesizers. Plus, after the crushing, the remains can be used for a
variety of products from generating electricity, to making paper.

Dan Espen · Guest

"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> writes:

[quote]Okay, show us a famine that has ever taken place in the history of the world
in a functioning democracy. There have been food shortages in democracies,
true. There may have even been widespread hunger. But never a famine.
[/quote]
Wikipedia has a handy list of famines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

scanning the list I see there were famines in Belgium and Greece
during WW2.
There are a few Irish famines, and one in Scotland.

I>m pretty sure all those countries had some sort of benevolent
monarchy at the time which was the fashion until only recently.

Most famines are caused by wars or natural catastrophes.
Democracies were pretty uncommon in the pre-industrial era.

I>m at a loss to understand what the point is.

The cures for famine come from modern industry and peace.
Democracies may lead to more peace but I think that>s unproven.
We can certainly see counter examples in modern times.

Dean Hoffman · Guest

SMS wrote:
[quote]Phred wrote:
In article <5fSdnfr6-eZuy4_VnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, "HeyBub"
heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
In article <-cadne-FwOfHI4zVnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
Current technology does not favor "grass" type crops, including
hemp, 'switch-grass' and others. The problem is the enormous cost of
transporting the raw materials to the processing plant.
Have fun explaining how come sugar cane works fine.
Sugar cane is not a "grass" type crop - Duh!

Hey Bub, I>m afraid you>ve left me a bit confused. Sugar cane is a
grass, so I don>t see what you>re getting at here.

Yes, it is a grass, and it>s also one of the most efficient photo
synthesizers. Plus, after the crushing, the remains can be used for a
variety of products from generating electricity, to making paper.
[/quote]
And the distillers grain and such left over from ethanol production
is feed for critters. The feed value isn>t changed for ruminants like
cattle by the ethanol process.

Dean

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Rod Speed · Guest

Dan Espen <daneNO@MORE.mk.SPAMtelcordia.com> wrote
[quote]HeyBub <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote

Okay, show us a famine that has ever taken place in the
history of the world in a functioning democracy. There have
been food shortages in democracies, true. There may have
even been widespread hunger. But never a famine.

Wikipedia has a handy list of famines:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
[/quote]
It does indeed.

A few obvious omissions tho, particularly Japan just after WW2
had ended when democracy had been imposed there by the allies.

And India after independance.

[quote]scanning the list I see there were famines in Belgium and Greece during WW2.
[/quote]
Those werent arguably democracys at that time tho. Holland tool.

[quote]There are a few Irish famines,
[/quote]
Yep, those are good examples of famines in a democracy.

[quote]and one in Scotland.
[/quote]
That wasnt as extreme a famine as many of the others.

[quote]I>m pretty sure all those countries had some sort of benevolent
monarchy at the time which was the fashion until only recently.
[/quote]
They were also democracys, in spades with Japan after WW2.

[quote]Most famines are caused by wars or natural catastrophes.
[/quote]
There isnt really much alternative.

[quote]Democracies were pretty uncommon in the pre-industrial era.
[/quote]
Wrong, particularly with the first democracys in ancient greece etc.

[quote]I>m at a loss to understand what the point is.
[/quote]
What was been discussed as clearly Sen>s assertion
that there has never been a famine in a democracy.

He>s clearly just plain wrong on that.

[quote]The cures for famine come from modern industry and peace.
[/quote]
Not really. In most recent times its been more about effective plant breeding
thats eliminated the famines that arent the result of war. Effective plant
breeding has been going on for a hell of a lot more than just modern times.

[quote]Democracies may lead to more peace
[/quote]
Even thats very arguable with WW1 and WW2 being mostly involving democracys.

[quote]but I think that>s unproven.
[/quote]
And Sen>s claim that there has never been a famine in a democracy is clearly just plain wrong.

[quote]We can certainly see counter examples in modern times.
[/quote]
Yep, in spades with WW1, WW2 and the cold war, and Vietnam etc.

Its certainly true that now that modern plant breeding and the transport of food to
areas affected by natural catastrophe, that its mostly areas where war or civil strife
is rampant that sees famine now, most obviously with the most recent famines.

Rod Speed · Guest

HeyBub <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed wrote

"Mr. Sen is famous for his assertion that famines do not occur in
democracies. "No famine has ever taken place in the history of the
world in a functioning democracy," he wrote in 'Democracy as Freedom'."

He>s just plain wrong.

For this sort of thinking, Amartya Kumar Sen was awarded the 1998 Nobel Prize in Economics.

Nope, not for that steaming turd he wasnt.

Uh, yes. For exactly that:
[/quote]
Nope, nothing like that particular steaming turd. He got his Nobel prize
for MATHEMATICAL ECONOMICS, and that particular steaming
turd of his has NOTHING to do with MATHEMATICAL economics.

[quote]"Amartya Kumar Sen is an economist best known for his work on famine,
Human development theory, welfare economics, and the underlying
causes of poverty and hunger. When the world was talking of free
market economy, Prof. Sen emphasised the need for giving a human face
to development. Amartya Sen is one of those few economists who talk
of political economy of hunger.
[/quote]
Irrelevant to what he got the Nobel Prize for.

[quote]He received the ... Noble prize for economics... for his work in mathematical economics in 1998."
[/quote]
And that steaming turd at the top has nothing to do with MATHEMATICAL economics.

[quote]If you have an alternative to the assertion, please share it with us.

Just did.

Okay, show us a famine that has ever taken place in the history of the world in a functioning democracy.
[/quote]
Just did, they had some in ancient times in Greece etc.

There were some in India after independance too.

And the Irish Potato Famine etc too.

And Japan after democracy had been imposed by the allies after WW2.

And Sen never said anything about a FUCNTIONING democracy,
thats you slithering off from the original claim, as you always do.

[quote]There have been food shortages in democracies, true. There may have even been widespread hunger. But never a famine.
[/quote]
The Irish potato famine was a famine by any measure and is called a famine too.

[quote]The ball>s in your court.
[/quote]
Nope, yours.

[quote]Instead of flatly denying what many can demonstrate as an obvious truth,
[/quote]
You>re lying now.

[quote]show us an example.

Just one.
[/quote]
I showed you 4. Bullshit your way out of those.

[quote]As you can see, hydrocarbons account for 2.48 CMOs,

But oil and gas doesnt dominate electric power generation. You are wrong.

I said "hydrocarbons."
[/quote]
Says he carefully deleting what he actually did say from the quoting.

He>s what you ACTUALLY said

[quote]The basic problem is not ethanol, the problem is enviornmentalism.
Consider: most of our electric power and all of our transportation
energy derives from oil and gas.
[/quote]
You are a flagrantly dishonest pathological liar. You ACTUALLY said oil and gas, liar.

[quote]Electric power generation in the United States by source:
Coal - 50%
Natural gas - 18%
Oil - 3%
Total hydrocarbons - 71%
Nuclear - 20%
Hydropower - 7%
http://www.data360.org/graph_group.aspx?Graph_Group_Id=360
[/quote]
Like I said, f ck all oil is involved in the generation of electricity in the US.
Even gas is only a minor contributor, less than nukes and some countrys
like France have grossly more generated by nukes than oil and gas combined.

[quote]Nuclear for a tiny fraction, probably even less than the use of charcoal.

Not in some countrys like France and Japan.

France generates 78% of its electricity from nuclear.
[/quote]
And f ck all from oil and gas, so your original claim, which you carefully
deleted from the quoting and I have restored is clearly just plain wrong.

[quote]Japan is a little different (Japan alone accounts for half of Australia>s coal exports)
[/quote]
Irrelevant since your stupid claim was about OIL AND GAS, not hydrocarbons.

[quote]Coal - 19%
Oil - 18%
Natural gas - 20%
Total hydrocarbon - 57%
Nuclear - 32%

Both France and Japan have substantial generation capability using nuclear energy.
[/quote]
What I said.

[quote]Heh! Ronald Reagan said that those who say there are no simple solutions have just not tried hard enough.

And he ended up with Alzhiemers. You>re well along that line.

Can>t find fault with the message,
[/quote]
You>re lying, again. That claim is terminally stupid. There is no simple
solution to the world>s consumption of crude oil, whatever that fool claimed.

[quote]so attack the messenger.
[/quote]
You>re no messenger, just a pathological liar.

[quote]Such argumentation techniques demonstrate the paucity of arguments.
[/quote]
Your pathological lying in spades.

[quote]Yet the air is cleaner today than it>s ever been - even cleaner than before electricity (when people burned wood
for heating). But we>ve got this aversion to oil exploration, production, and refining.

Nope, thats been done so extensively for so long now that the
easiest to find oil has been found and quite a bit of it consumed.

Do you realize that over 40% of our offshore potential can>t even be explored or tested?

That aint the easiest to find, stupid.

You>re correct. The "easiest" to find is that which seeps out of the ground as in Titusville, Pennsylvania in 1859 or
the La Brea Tar Pits today, or where seams of coal break the surface. Offshore exploration is, however, almost
trivial. The company I worked for, Western Geophysical, was selling offshore seismic survey results at $20/mile in the
Gulf of Mexico. Of course that was back when $20 was a lot of money - they>re probably charging $30 today.
[/quote]
The problem with offshore oil aint the exploration, its the cost of getting that oil out of the ground.

It makes a lot more sense to exploit onshore oil while its available.

[quote]And you completely mangled that claim about oil and gas and electricity generation.

I never said "oil and gas." I said "hydrocarbons."
[/quote]
You>re a pathological liar. Here is what you actually did say, liar.

[quote]The basic problem is not ethanol, the problem is enviornmentalism.
Consider: most of our electric power and all of our transportation
energy derives from oil and gas.
[/quote]
How odd that you deleted that from the quoting.

[quote]Hydrocarbons account for 83% of the world>s energy use (not just electricity) - 71% in the U.S.
[/quote]
Irrelevant to your stupid claim about oil and gas in electricity generation just above.

[quote]I may no longer be in the oil bidness (as we say in Texas), but I
remember the difference between "hydrocarbons" and "oil and gas."
[/quote]
But your altzhiemers is now so bad that you cant even manage to remember what you actually
did say about electricity generation and have to lie about what you said just one over ago.

No wonder you got the bums rush, right out the door.

Rod Speed · Guest

Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote
[quote]Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
Kurt Ullman <kurtullman@yahoo.com> wrote
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
HeyBub <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote
aspasia wrote

Or rather corn ethanol demand was craftily engineered by
influential agribusinessmen in certain "heartland" states,
shoveling out their contributions to our beloved Congress-whores.
They did not care what ripple effects this would create in the
Third World, where people are now starving. Effects even felt in
our neighbor to the South, where the price of corn went through
the ceiling, affecting tortillas -- a standard food, like wheat
bread in the States.

There has never been a famine in a democracy.

Wrong.

Name one, if you would be so kind.

Depends on what you call a democracy. They had some in ancient times in Greece etc.

There were some in India after independance too.

And the Irish Potato Famine etc too.

And Japan after it lost WW2 and was returned to a democracy by the Allies too.

I can>t think of any.

Your problem.

From your reply apparently the same one you have.
I loved the late inclusion of the "depends".
[/quote]
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

Address those named, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.

Guest

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-545A70.08193226042008@news.phx.highwinds-media.com...
[quote]In article <uP-dnTdAr4ZNqI7VnZ2dnUVZ_uKpnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

Don Klipstein wrote:

I would encourange gardening to combat the inflation in
whatever/whoever is increasing the size of their slices of the pie.

Gardening works if it attracts rabbits.

Remember, vegetables are not food; vegetables are what food eats.

Sounds like my favorite bumper sticker: "If we>re not supposed to eat
animals, why are they made of meat?"
[/quote]
EXACTLY! Carbs are what food eats.

Guest

On Apr 25, 2:08 pm, Kurt Ullman <kurtull...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]In article <67etoeF1v1s8...@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:

HeyBub <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
aspasia wrote:

Or rather corn ethanol demand was craftily engineered by influential
agribusinessmen in certain "heartland" states, shoveling out their
contributions to our beloved Congress-whores. They did not care what
ripple effects this would create in the Third World, where people are
now starving. Effects even felt in our neighbor to the South, where
the price of corn went through the ceiling, affecting tortillas -- a
standard food, like wheat bread in the States.

There has never been a famine in a democracy.

Wrong.

Name one, if you would be so kind. I can>t think of any.
[/quote]
There haven>t been that many democracies, historically speaking. Post-
colonial India has had some starving people from time to time, but
perhaps it is a stretch to call it a true democracy...And that doesn>t
mean it can>t happen.
Can we get back to the subject matter of the original post? How many
out there are planting garden crops this year?-Jitney

Guest

On Apr 25, 10:20 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
[quote]In <ce35f13a-121c-4c6e-897c-c7407801b...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,

annezie wrote:
I think growing a garden is the smart thing to do this year.

I went and got some more plants today.

About high prices: I have noticed that bread is a lot higher too. At
least a dollar more per loaf here in Kentucky, which to me is a lot.

Even at today>s high prices, the wheat in a loaf of bread costs about
20 cents or somewhat less.

If I understand right, wheat prices at the Chicago Board of Trade most
recently went for $8-$8.09 per bushel. (The price peaked in late
February, a bit over $12 at Chicago Board of Trade and about $17 at
Minneapolis Board of Trade IIUC.)

A bushel of wheat weighs 60 pounds. That has wheat costing about 8.3
cents per pound. A loaf of bread usually weighs 22-24 ounces, including
some added water.

I would encourange gardening to combat the inflation in whatever/whoever
is increasing the size of their slices of the pie.

- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
[/quote]
On this and your earlier post on obesity, perhaps growing more of our
own food is part of the solution. Kids play videogames for hours
rather than fieldsports, and we drive our cars to the supermarket and
load up the food rather than planting, hoeing weeds, and harvesting
and preparing. If we do more of what earlier generations did, we will
start looking more like them. Even if we don>t grow all of our own
food, we will appreciate more the work that goes into it. The greater
supply will lower the overall market demand, moderating prices. It
will also save some of the fuel used to carry the food from the field
to our table. As much corn as the US grows, it is much less acreage
and effort than goes into our lawns.-Jitney

Don Klipstein · Guest

In article <48133cb9$0$9551$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, h wrote:
[quote]
"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrng15bgh.1pq.don@manx.misty.com...
In article <4811a037$0$30226$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, h wrote:

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote in message
news:slrng12a9m.dk4.don@manx.misty.com...

Hogs get fat from high calorie intake. Keep in mind that when the low
carb craze was expanding, America>s waistlines and diabetes rates
continued expanding.

It>s not a "craze". It>s been around forever. I stopped eating all grains in
my 20s, when I discovered my gluten sensitivity. If I ate wheat I got
asthma, if I didn>t I was fine. I had already stopped eating most other
carbs because I would crash after eating them. I had never heard of "Atkins"
at the time. It was just healthy, proper eating. I>m now in my 50s and I
weigh the same as I did in my 20s. I>ve gained an inch or two since my
ballet dancer days, but muscle weighs more than fat, and I only exercise an
hour a day these days, so I>m not as fit as I was then. Still, I have more
energy than any carb guzzler half my age.

The type of calories DO matter, not just the amount. A 1,000 low carb
calorie diet of will cause anyone to lose weight, while a 1,000 high carb
calorie diet will cause most people to gain weight, exercising or not. Plus,
they>ll be tired and feel hungry all the time.
[/quote]
I would call a liar anyone who says that an adult can gain weight in fat
from 1,000 calories a day.

Also, if I eat 1500 calories in a day or less, I have high incidence of
feeling tired and hungry and get slowed down on my bike no matter what
form the calories are, though worse with less carb - been there, done
that, tried it!

[quote]Also, I have NEVER met someone who didn>t lose a LOT of weight on any low
carb diet.
[/quote]
I have! Plenty! Coworkers, friends, relatives!

[quote]The problem is that they go back to their "normal" diet of sugar
poison and gain it all back.
[/quote]
Mostly they abandon low-carb after finding low-carb not working after
the first couple weeks once the body efficiently makes use of calories
mostly from fat or protein - or not working at all.

[quote]Low carbing is something that should be done
for a lifetime, not just to dump some weight. If every type II diabetic cut
carbs from his or her diet today, most of them would be symptom free in a
few weeks. Fat doesn>t make you fat. Sugar makes you fat.
[/quote]
You avoid mentioning starch!

Meanwhile, I have a friend who made a major calorie intake cut after
having a heart attack, cutting mainly fat, after that alcohol, after that
minor cuts in protein and carbs, and his calorie intake intake is now high
majority carbs (was before half carb at most). He eats breakfast cereal
for a late afternoon snack in place of something fattier. He counts every
percentage point of "recommended daily intake" of fat and mostly stays
below half that - in part on advice of his cardiologist, but also because
that reduces calorie density bigtime.

He went from pudgy with a beer belly to nice and lean. His
triglycerides are now a little over half the upper limit of the good
range. His cardiologist has reduced the frequency of need for bloodwork
because that guy has the best numbers his cardiologist sees in any of his
patients. He even got good numbers when his late afternoon (or early
evening) snack bowl of cereal was Froot Loops.

He largely quit fattier meats and pizza, and he quit eating American
chinese takeout food (mostly having a fair amount of soybean oil - unlike
what is usually actually done in China).

His weekend restaurant fare shifted significantly towards buffet places
(pig out on veggies of all carb levels) and Subway (footlong no-cheese
subs with the lean meats). Or a steak place and get a smaller steak and
extra side veggies (including beans, whatever) and buttering his potato
very minimally.

He started walking daily, average of about 2 miles a day.

I credit his highly effective weight loss mostly to reduction of calorie
intake by cutting more where calorie density is higher.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)


www.GetXFactor.com Leading Technology, Science, Agriculture News and information	Part of the Identityscape.com network... getxfactor.com jmoodmusic.com smartbusinesschoices.com mintdepot.com lowfaresalways.com evangelicalview.com shoppingpodder.com soproudlywehail.com webnews.ws currenthumor.com

Science and Technology news... Forum Index -> Agriculture Forum	Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Page 5 of 7