Science and Technology news... :: View topic - Even Manhatten Project Wasn>t "On the Fly" R&D

Bret Cahill · Guest

Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill

Mike Jr. · Guest

On Jul 4, 2:07 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
[quote]Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill
[/quote]
Nuclear power has been around for how long?

How big are the US coal reserves? How long has coal liquefaction been
around?

The problem isn>t technology, it is the lack of investment in what we
already know how to do.

--Mike Jr

zzbunker@netscape.net · Guest

On Jul 4, 2:07 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
[quote]Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.
[/quote]
But, even better, they knew there were neutrons three decades
before they started.
Since E=MC^2 also supposedly applies to supercomputers, if the
idiot relativers
could ever bring themselves to think about history rather simply
babbling about it.

[quote]
Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill[/quote]

zzbunker@netscape.net · Guest

On Jul 4, 5:34 pm, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
[quote]"zzbun...@netscape.net" wrote:

On Jul 4, 2:07 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

But, even better, they knew there were neutrons three decades
before they started.
Since E=MC^2 also supposedly applies to supercomputers, if the
idiot relativers
could ever bring themselves to think about history rather simply
babbling about it.

[snip crap]

Hey bozo - the Manhattan Project had more Jews/m^2 than a Nazi
concentration camp. The National Energy Crisis! has
[/quote]
It doesn>t matter how many jews the moron Manhattan Project had.
We got GPS, we got Lasers, we got Space Shuttles, and we got
MIIRVs,
and we got Cruise Missiles, and we got adaptive A.I. and we got
Robots.
and we DVD+RW, and the moron Jews got Woody Alllen, New Dork
City
and a bunch of Russian retards.

[quote]
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qualified.jpg

--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2[/quote]

Bob Eld · Guest

"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8f625c1c-50ff-47f0-b6ce-90ce2e3aee53@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
[quote]Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill
[/quote]
After the first oil shock we basically drilled our way out of it and didn>t
complete the research necessary for alternatives. We started down that road
but set it aside as oil prices lowered and stabilized. The situation is
different now. We virtually can>t drill our way out this time. If we do
again what we did in the 70>s and put aside the necessary research and
development we will really be in trouble in a few years.

But, just because everyone wants instant mature "green industries," and that
they are far from developed yet does not mean we should put aside that
development. What we need is national leadership that understands this and
is more interested in funding and pushing the development of alternative
energy than waging war, for example. It>s now a matter of national survival
much more important than any of the silly terrorism nonsense ever was.

It>s now a matter of national security and survival. Most people seem to
realize this to some degree, so I think we will begin down the right road.
We must, however, guard against the naysayers and doom sayers who throw up
countless obstacles and irrational objections for this or that self serving
reason. We must stay focused on our ultimate goal of energy self
sufficiency.

Eeyore · Guest

Bret Cahill wrote:

[quote]Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.
[/quote]
It>s the politicians and 'greens' that make ME nervous. Not a clue
between them.

Graham

Eeyore · Guest

Bob Eld wrote:

[quote]"Bret Cahill" <BretCahill@aol.com> wrote

Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill

After the first oil shock we basically drilled our way out of it and didn>t
complete the research necessary for alternatives. We started down that road
but set it aside as oil prices lowered and stabilized. The situation is
different now. We virtually can>t drill our way out this time. If we do
again what we did in the 70>s and put aside the necessary research and
development we will really be in trouble in a few years.

But, just because everyone wants instant mature "green industries," and that
they are far from developed yet does not mean we should put aside that
development. What we need is national leadership that understands this and
is more interested in funding and pushing the development of alternative
energy than waging war, for example. It>s now a matter of national survival
much more important than any of the silly terrorism nonsense ever was.

It>s now a matter of national security and survival. Most people seem to
realize this to some degree, so I think we will begin down the right road.
We must, however, guard against the naysayers and doom sayers who throw up
countless obstacles and irrational objections for this or that self serving
reason. We must stay focused on our ultimate goal of energy self
sufficiency.
[/quote]
Using less of the stuff i.e NO SUVs would help a heck of a lot.

Graham

Eeyore · Guest

"Mike Jr." wrote:

[quote]Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill

Nuclear power has been around for how long?
[/quote]
~ 52 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield#Calder_Hall_nuclear_power_station

Graham

Bob Eld · Guest

"Mike Jr." <n00spam@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f32266b6-fe1e-4416-9050-79495b97a13e@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Jul 4, 2:07 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill

Nuclear power has been around for how long?

How big are the US coal reserves? How long has coal liquefaction been
around?

The problem isn>t technology, it is the lack of investment in what we
already know how to do.

--Mike Jr
[/quote]
For good or for ill, it>s more politics than investment that keeps us from
doing all we know how to do.

For sure we know how to do nuclear power but try to get one licensed these
days. That may change with energy costs so high, but the politics of it have
kept nuclear power off of the list since the 1970>s.

We are still building coal fired plants but they are burping more and more
CO2 into the atmosphere and are under increasing scrutiny. If so called
"clean coal" ever really happens where the CO2 can be captured, then you
might see coal liquification and other processes added to the mix. Right now
the politics of coal are poison.

Bret is talking about green sources at reasonable prices that don>t impact
food. Furthermore they need to be storable and convenient to use and should,
if possible, fuel existing equipment with little or no modification. It>s a
tall order, that>s why we need research.

Mike Jr. · Guest

On Jul 4, 5:12 pm, "Bob Eld" <nsmontas...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"Mike Jr." <n00s...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:f32266b6-fe1e-4416-9050-79495b97a13e@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

On Jul 4, 2:07 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill

Nuclear power has been around for how long?

How big are the US coal reserves? How long has coal liquefaction been
around?

The problem isn>t technology, it is the lack of investment in what we
already know how to do.

--Mike Jr

For good or for ill, it>s more politics than investment that keeps us from
doing all we know how to do.
[/quote]
The politics is preventing the investment.

[quote]
For sure we know how to do nuclear power but try to get one licensed these
days. That may change with energy costs so high, but the politics of it have
kept nuclear power off of the list since the 1970>s.

We are still building coal fired plants but they are burping more and more
CO2 into the atmosphere and are under increasing scrutiny.
[/quote]
Check my recent appends in sci.physics. My investigation has led me
to conclude that CO2 AGW is physically not possible. That is, the
science behind AGW is deeply flawed. Therefore I see no reason for a
green energy policy.

[quote]If so called
"clean coal" ever really happens where the CO2 can be captured, then you
might see coal liquification and other processes added to the mix. Right now
the politics of coal are poison.

Bret is talking about green sources at reasonable prices that don>t impact
food. Furthermore they need to be storable and convenient to use and should,
if possible, fuel existing equipment with little or no modification. It>s a
tall order, that>s why we need research.
[/quote]
The politics of green energy have led to high energy costs and mass
starvation, all to prevent a CO2 induced run away global warming which
can>t happen because it violates the laws of physics.

BTW, your reply was very courteous and I appreciate it.

--Mike Jr

Uncle Al · Guest

Bret Cahill wrote:
[quote]
Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

Now with peak oil everyone wants really fundamental research done "on
the wing."

They want "new mature" green industries yesterday.

I>m not saying that breakthroughs are impossible in this climate.
"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

Bret Cahill
[/quote]
1) Go to the Colorado high desert.
2) Define a block of subterranean oil shale 100x100x100 m^3, about
2 million metric tonnes.
3) Mine out about 10%, then blast to fragment the chimney.
4) Light the top like a cigarette, blow in air, and put a drip pan
at the bottom.
5) As the top burns down on residual char the oil shale below
pyrolyzes and releases its hydrocarbon content.
6) A good week and a rich vein obtains about 0.27 million metric
tonnes of shale oil. That is about 1.9 million bbl of oil.
7) Declare bankruptcy.

Shale oil is rich with rock dust that wears away elbows and valves
like sand blasting. It is about 3% nitrogen and 20 ppm arsenic, the
perfect poison for reforming catalyst - nitrogen kills acidic zeolite,
arsenic kills noble metal catalysts. If you get all that fixed shale
oil is also heavily unsaturated, loaded with olefin. The hydrogen
needed for bond saturation will bankrupt you.

Oh yeah... oil shale is not shale, it is calcareous marlstone low rank
coal. The stuff left behind after burning is rich with lime. It will
run pH 14 groundwater pretty much forever - the solution to acid mine
drainage!

Ignite Colorado, truck the effluent to the National Petroleum Reserve,
end Colorado molybdenite mine acid effluent, save America! It>s a
no-brainer. $10 billion ought to do it for starters. Hve prison
chain gangs do the preparative mining to keep costs down.

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Uncle Al · Guest

"zzbunker@netscape.net" wrote:
[quote]
On Jul 4, 2:07 pm, Bret Cahill <BretCah...@aol.com> wrote:
Not to diminish the bomb effort but at least they knew E=mc^2 three
decades before they started.

But, even better, they knew there were neutrons three decades
before they started.
Since E=MC^2 also supposedly applies to supercomputers, if the
idiot relativers
could ever bring themselves to think about history rather simply
babbling about it.
[snip crap][/quote]

Hey bozo - the Manhattan Project had more Jews/m^2 than a Nazi
concentration camp. The National Energy Crisis! has

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qualified.jpg

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2

Eeyore · Guest

Bob Eld wrote:

[quote]For sure we know how to do nuclear power but try to get one licensed these
days.
[/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pressurized_Reactor

Two under construction. Finland and France.

Six on order in Asia.. Expect more.

Also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP1000

4 units planned to start construction this year in China and another 11 licences
sought in the USA.

Graham

Immortalist · Guest

[quote]"When a man knows he>s going to be hung in a fortnight, it
concentrates the mind wonderfully" applies to everyone.

I>m just saying that attitude makes me really really nervous.

[/quote]
Culture of fear is a term that refers to a perceived prevalence of
fear and anxiety in public discourse and relationships, and how this
may affect the way people interact with one another as individuals and
as democratic agents.

Mean World Syndrome is a phenomenon whereby the violence-related
content of mass media convinces viewers that the world is more
dangerous than it actually is, and prompts a desire for more
protection than is warranted by any actual threat. Mean World Syndrome
is one of the main effects of Cultivation theory.

The term "risk society" is not intended to imply an increase of risk
in society, but rather a society that is organized in response to
risk. 'It is a society increasingly preoccupied with the future (and
also with safety), which generates the notion of risk' (Giddens 1999:
3) Risk can be defined in the risk society as a systematic way of
dealing with hazards and insecurities induced and introduced by
modernization itself (Beck 1992: 21).

While humans have always been subjected to a level of risk, modern
society is exposed to a particular type of risk that is the result of
the modernization process itself, altering social organization. There
are risks such as natural disasters that have always had negative
effects on human populations, but these are seen to be produced by non-
human forces. Modern risks, on the other hand, are the product of
human activity. These two different types of risk can be referred to
as external risks and manufactured risks (Giddens, 1999). A risk
society is predominantly concerned with manufactured risks. The marked
difference between the two is that there is a significant level of
human agency operating in the production and mitigation of
manufactured risks.

Media circus describes a news event where the media coverage is
perceived to be out of proportion to the event being covered, such as
the number of reporters at the scene, the amount of news media
published or broadcast, and the level of media hype. The term is meant
to critique the media by comparing it to a circus and, as such, is an
idiom and not an objective observation. Media hype, orgy and frenzy
are similar terms used in reference to a critique of news and
entertainment media.

Mass hysteria, also called collective hysteria, mass psychogenic
illness, or collective obsessional behavior, is the sociopsychological
phenomenon of the manifestation of the same or similar hysterical
symptoms by more than one person. A common manifestation of mass
hysteria occurs when a group of people believe they are suffering from
a similar disease or ailment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_fear
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_world_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_Society
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_hype
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria

> Bret Cahill

zzbunker@netscape.net · Guest

On Jul 4, 10:13 pm, Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelati...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
[quote]"zzbun...@netscape.net" wrote:
We got GPS, we got Lasers, we got Space Shuttles, and we got
MIIRVs,
and we got Cruise Missiles, and we got adaptive A.I. and we got
Robots.
and we DVD+RW,

Do you think any of those are unique to the USA ?
[/quote]
Noboby claimed any sort of uniqueness, only that we got
real LFA to go with the AI, DVD+RW, and Cruise Missiles and
Internet got stooges.
.

[quote]
Hint : no they>re not.

Graham[/quote]


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