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Zev · Guest

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

Yusuf B Gursey · Guest

On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?
[/quote]
the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Zev · Guest

On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.
[/quote]
Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

Yusuf B Gursey · Guest

On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:

On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?
[/quote]
AFAIK no.

Peter T. Daniels · Guest

On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?
[/quote]
"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

alan · Guest

"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?
[/quote]
In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the tail,
khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a general
term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the animal, it
would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail, livers, kidneys,
etc.
(see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus it
was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which was
permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well as that
which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill Beni-Israel . .
..
--
alan

Peter T. Daniels · Guest

On Jul 24, 11:19 pm, "alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[quote]"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the tail,
khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a general
term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the animal, it
would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail, livers, kidneys,
etc.
(see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus it
was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which was
permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well as that
which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill Beni-Israel .. .
[/quote]
Thank you. (But why do you use <kh> to transliterate Chet?) I wonder
whether we>ll hear from Zev.

Zev · Guest

On Jul 25, 3:57 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 24, 11:19 pm, "alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
messagenews:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware
of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the
locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the
tail,
khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a
general
term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the animal,
it
would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail, livers,
kidneys,
etc.
(see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression
of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in
Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus
it
was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which was
permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well as
that
which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill Beni-Israel
. .

Thank you. (But why do you use <kh> to transliterate Chet?) I wonder
whether we>ll hear from Zev.-
[/quote]
I used it because <ch> is easily confused
with the ch of choir or of church.
Kh has no standard pronunciation in English
and if you try to say K and H close together
it should come out close to the real thing.
I>ve seen others using it, I assume for the same reason.

Was it a bad choice?

Zev · Guest

"alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KCbik.8860$L_.958@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
[quote]"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the
tail, khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a
general term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the
animal, it would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail,
livers, kidneys, etc.
[/quote]
Leviticus 3:17.
`It is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all
your dwellings: you shall not eat any fat (=Chalev) or any blood.' "

If unlocated Chalev just means "fat"
Jews would have trouble eating any meat at all!

[quote](see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus
it was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which
was permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well as
that which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill
Beni-Israel . .
[/quote]
Can you tell me what those "special circumstances" were?
I think you>ll have trouble with this.

Peter T. Daniels · Guest

On Jul 25, 10:10 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 25, 3:57 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:

On Jul 24, 11:19 pm, "alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
messagenews:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware
of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the
locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the
tail,
khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a
general
term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the animal,
it
would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail, livers,
kidneys,
etc.
(see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression
of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in
Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus
it
was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which was
permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well as
that
which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill Beni-Israel
. .

Thank you. (But why do you use <kh> to transliterate Chet?) I wonder
whether we>ll hear from Zev.-

I used it because <ch> is easily confused
with the ch of choir or of church.
[/quote]
I thought you were talking about Hebrew words.

[quote]Kh has no standard pronunciation in English
and if you try to say K and H close together
it should come out close to the real thing.
I>ve seen others using it, I assume for the same reason.
[/quote]
How do you spell Chanukkah?

[quote]Was it a bad choice?
[/quote]
Considering tht there has been a standard way to render Hebrew into
roman letters for decades, yes.

Kh renders kaf-rafe.

Peter T. Daniels · Guest

On Jul 25, 10:36 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:KCbik.8860$L_.958@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...

"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the
tail, khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a
general term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the
animal, it would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail,
livers, kidneys, etc.

Leviticus 3:17.
`It is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all
your dwellings: you shall not eat any fat (=Chalev) or any blood.' "

If unlocated Chalev just means "fat"
Jews would have trouble eating any meat at all!

(see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus
it was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which
was permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well as
that which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill
Beni-Israel . .

Can you tell me what those "special circumstances" were?
I think you>ll have trouble with this.
[/quote]
Can you answer the questions raised earlier in the thread?

mb · Guest

On Jul 25, 5:54 pm, "alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com>

[quote]7:4 and.... and the lobe above the liver, which he shall take away by the
kidneys.
[/quote]
Who is the contortionist here? The butcher, Mister Cohen, the poor
beast with the unusual anatomy, or the translator?

alan · Guest

On Jul 25, 10:36 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]"alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:KCbik.8860$L_.958@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...

"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146, referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not aware
of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the
locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of the
tail, khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be
a
general term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the
animal, it would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail,
livers, kidneys, etc.

Leviticus 3:17.
`It is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all
your dwellings: you shall not eat any fat (=Chalev) or any blood.' "

If unlocated Chalev just means "fat"
Jews would have trouble eating any meat at all!
[/quote]
I agree with you, Zev, and that>s why I speculated that (due to the fact
that it also means "milk") chelev as used in Leviticus is intended to mean
"the good fat", "the choice fat", "the primo fat", the fat that>s used for
sacrifice and which only Kohanim can eat and which is off-limits to ordinary
non-Kohanim. Of course, "the choice fat" is a little vague, so we are told
where this good stuff is ---

7:3 And he shall offer of it all the fat (chelev) thereof: the fat (chelev)
tail, and the fat (chelev) that covereth the inwards,
7:4 and the two kidneys, and the fat (chelev) that is on them, which is by
the loins, and the lobe above the liver, which he shall take away by the
kidneys.
7:5 And the priest shall make them smoke upon the altar for an offering made
by fire unto the LORD; it is a guilt-offering.
7:6 Every male among the priests may eat thereof; it shall be eaten in a
holy place; it is most holy.

[quote](see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the expression
of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in
Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the "good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of Leviticus
it was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which
was permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well
as
that which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill
Beni-Israel . .

Can you tell me what those "special circumstances" were?
I think you>ll have trouble with this.
[/quote]
Lev 7:6 (see in the context of Lev 7:3-5) 7:6 "Every male among the priests
may eat thereof; it shall be eaten in a holy place; it is most holy".
Kind of like telling the Kohanim "Hey, here>s another reason you should be
thankful that you>re Kohanim --- that good primo fat (and we>ve already told
you where it is) which we>ve forbidden to everyone else? --- hey, YOU guys
can eat it. But don>t lord it over everyone else, don>t stir up resentment,
don>t wrap it up and take it home with you for dinner --- eat it in the
temple, ok?"

And just to make sure that non-Kohanim don>t eat that good primo fat, here
are THEIR instructions:
7:23 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: Ye shall eat no fat
(chelev), of ox, or sheep, or goat."
And just to make sure there>s no mistake about what the good primo fat is
(we>ve already laid out its locations in 7:3 and 7:4) let>s specify a little
further by reminding you that its the chelev that>s used for sacrifices:
Lev 7:25 "For whosoever eateth the fat (chelev) of the beast, *of which men
present an offering made by fire unto the LORD*, even the soul that eateth
it shall be cut off from his people."

Of course, my wild speculations could be way off the mark . . .

BTW, Zev, it>d be interesting to see how "shuman" is used in the Tanakh, and
if its specifically contrasted with "chelev" --- do you have any examples?

Helmut Richter · Guest

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008, alan wrote:

[quote]BTW, Zev, it>d be interesting to see how "shuman" is used in the Tanakh, and
if its specifically contrasted with "chelev" --- do you have any examples?
[/quote]
I did not find an instance in the Tanakh, which does in fact weaken the
statement a little that a *distinction* is made. It is, in fact, a
distinction between a single word.

--
Helmut Richter

Zev · Guest

On Jul 25, 8:08 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
[quote]On Jul 25, 10:10 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 25, 3:57 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:19 pm, "alan" <in_flagra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
messagenews:510d17ff-3d62-4253-a7c7-c8213f788dbd@b2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 24, 4:06 pm, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 9:45 pm, Yusuf B Gursey <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
On Jul 24, 11:18 am, Zev <zev_h...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hebrew has two words for fat:
"Shuman" for the permitted kind, "Khaylev" for the
prohibited.
Recently, I came across a verse in the Quran, 6:146,
referring to
fat,
and I>m curious about Classical Arabic also having 2 words.

Does it?

the injunction is for jews only acc. to the Qur>an. I am not
aware
of
2 words for fat based on permisability.

Technically, khaylev is defined by its place in the animal.
The injunction is that all khaylev is prohibited.
Are there two words based on where the fat is from?

"Technically," it>s so defined by whom? By the rabbis who invented
the
details of the prohibitions, for which details there is no basis
in
Scripture? Have you collected all the occurrences of the two words
in
TaNaKh and verified that the distinction you refer to was relevant
there?

In Leviticus, the word khelev [×—×œ×‘] is used in specifying the
locations
of fat fit for ritual sacrifice and Kohanim consumption (khelev of
the
tail,
khelev of the kidneys, khelev of the liver, etc) it appears to be a
general
term for animal fat. If khelev were defined by its place on the
animal,
it
would seem to be unnecessary to specify khelev of the tail, livers,
kidneys,
etc.
(see Leviticus 7:3-6). The word khelev is also used in the
expression
of
the prohibition against eating it (see Leviticus 7:23-26).
AFAIK, shuman [×©×•×ž×Ÿ] is not used in the Tanakh --- at least in
Leviticus.
On the other hand, khelev also has the meaning of milk, and perhaps
by
extension cream, so maybe it was meant to impart the notion of the
"good
fat" or the "choice fat", particularly since in the context of
Leviticus
it
was specifying that which was suitable for sacrifice, and that which
was
permissible for Kohanim to eat under special circumstances, as well
as
that
which at the same time was off limits to the run of the mill
Beni-Israel
. .

Thank you. (But why do you use <kh> to transliterate Chet?) I wonder
whether we>ll hear from Zev.-

I used it because <ch> is easily confused
with the ch of choir or of church.

I thought you were talking about Hebrew words.
Chizbat, Check, Chupar are not Hebrew?[/quote]

[quote]Kh has no standard pronunciation in English
and if you try to say K and H close together
it should come out close to the real thing.
I>ve seen others using it, I assume for the same reason.

How do you spell Chanukkah?
[/quote]
Honestly, I>ve seen Kh for this.
In fact, that>s probably where I got the idea from.
But I don>t remember.

[quote]Was it a bad choice?

Considering tht there has been a standard way to render Hebrew into
roman letters for decades, yes.

Kh renders kaf-rafe.[/quote]


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