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G=EMC^2 Glazier · Guest

Rock Best to know there is no centrifugal force. Mach did away with
that crazy force. Best to realize spinning causes curves. Even curves
in space itself. Thus my Spin is in theory tells the source of curved
space So where is my Nobel? Should I switch to Swedish beer? Get a
Swedish dictionary?? Or just stay put and drink my Bud Light that is
owned by a Swede? So much pressure not knowing what to do.first
Bert

Bob Cain · Guest

Timberwoof wrote:

[quote]What it all comes down to is that the best shape to store rotational
energy is a wheel with thin spokes and a fat outer surface.
[/quote]
Energy is proportional to the square of the angular velocity while angular
momentum is only proportional to the velocity. This means that the way to store
the most rotational _energy_ is just spokes, no rim, made of whatever material
has the highest ratio of tensile strength to mass.

Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

Double-A · Guest

On Jul 29, 8:04 am, herbertglaz...@webtv.net (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:
[quote]Rock Best to know there is no centrifugal force. Mach did away with
that crazy force. Best to realize spinning causes curves. Even curves
in space itself. Thus my Spin is in theory tells the source of curved
space So where is my Nobel? Should I switch to Swedish beer? Get a
Swedish dictionary?? Or just stay put and drink my Bud Light that is
owned by a Swede? So much pressure not knowing what to do.first
Bert
[/quote]

Bud will now be owned by the Belgians.

Double-A

Double-A · Guest

On Jul 28, 3:24 pm, "Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> wrote:
[quote]"Hugh Clary" <badin...@netzero.ZAPTHISnet> wrote in message

news:488e2c20.26380468@news.individual.net...

"Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> wrote:
Hugh Clary asked...

Please explain angular momentum.

In the simplest terms, Hugh, think of "momentum" and
"inertia" as meaning the same thing. These are words
that describe the *movement* of an object.

The term "angular", when applied to "momentum" just
means that the object is not moving on a straight-line
path, but instead it>s moving on a curved path, and the
object may be also be spinning.

Jupiter and Saturn are the fastest spinning planets in
the Solar System. Connect this with their huge masses
and their curved paths around the Sun, and you will
understand why these gas giants possess most of the
angular momentum in the Solar System.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotation_period

Jupiter takes nearly 12 Earth years to orbit the Sun, so
its velocity around the Sun is 13 km/sec. This comes
out to 47,000 km/hour or about 29,000 miles/hour.
(Compare this to Earth>s 67,000 miles/hour speed of
revolution around the Sun!)

When you take Jupiter>s great speed of going around
the Sun, and you factor in Jupiter>s spin/rotation, you
can see why this planet>s angular momentum is high.
This huge gas giant only takes about 8 hours to make
a full rotation. So Jupiter both spins very fast and
goes around the Sun very fast.

Saturn>s story is similar. Saturn goes around the Sun
at a speed of about 22,000 mph and one full "day" on
Saturn is about 10-1/2 hours long.

So Jupiter and Saturn possess about 90% of all the
angular momentum in the Solar System. And the vast
majority of the rest of the angular momentum is had
by all the other major planets and minor planets that
go around the Sun. This has presented science with a
very interesting puzzle...

Why does the Sun, which possesses the vast majority
of the mass in the Solar System, possess such a very
small ration of the angular momentum?

Well put - thanks much!

HC

Thank *you*, and you>re very welcome, Hugh!

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net
[/quote]

But have they counted the angular momentum contained in the Sun>s
wobbles?

Double-A

Timberwoof · Guest

In article <uJ6dnSmuPaz7gA3VnZ2dnUVZ_orinZ2d@giganews.com>,
Bob Cain <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote:

[quote]Timberwoof wrote:

What it all comes down to is that the best shape to store
rotational energy is a wheel with thin spokes and a fat outer
surface.

Energy is proportional to the square of the angular velocity while
angular momentum is only proportional to the velocity. This means
that the way to store the most rotational _energy_ is just spokes, no
rim, made of whatever material has the highest ratio of tensile
strength to mass.
[/quote]
Your conclusion doesn>t follow, and it makes no engineering sense. Since
the energy is, as you say, proportional to the mass and square of the
speed, you want the most mass to have the most speed possible the
optimum shape for a flywheel would have its mass concentrated in the
rim. Indeed, a short search on Google Images verifies that. (The
flywheels for IC engines have to serve another purpose as well, so they
don>t follow that rule.)

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com> http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don>t blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

Sam Wormley · Guest

Bob Cain wrote:

[quote]
Energy is proportional to the square of the angular velocity while
angular momentum is only proportional to the velocity. This means that
the way to store the most rotational _energy_ is just spokes, no rim,
made of whatever material has the highest ratio of tensile strength to
mass.

Bob
[/quote]
Please rethink this Bob.

Painius · Guest

"Double-A" <double-a2@hush.com> wrote in message...
news:876f0405-be49-414c-8714-48f38bb42433@j1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
[quote]
But have they counted the angular momentum contained in the Sun>s
wobbles?

Double-A
[/quote]
I>m not sure, AA. However, whether or not the
wobbles are taken into consideration, i don>t think
the error is very much. As a closed system, the
Sun and planets seem to have a weird angular-
momentum relationship. OTOH, i wonder how
much the AM imparted to the Sun by its bobbing
up and down within the Orion arm, and by its trek
around the center of the galaxy, is or should be
counted?

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

Double-A · Guest

On Jul 31, 11:15 am, "Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> wrote:
[quote]"G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbertglaz...@webtv.net> wrote...

in messagenews:15877-4891D647-151@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net...

Painius could slow spin of the Sun be from not bringing in its
accretion disk fast enough?(like ice skaters do) or having such a great
gravitational mass using Mach idea on the rest of the universe(stars)
creating it to revolve slower and slower over time? Bert

Here>s my reasoning, Bert...

From what we know (or think we know) about the
origin of our Solar System, it seems pretty obvious
that our Sun spun around furiously at some point,
probably before it became a fusor, a star. And now,
it>s just as obvious that the Sun is rotating only very
slowly, such a great mass, 99.8% of the mass of
the entire Solar System, just trudging along at a
very slow rate of spin.

What could have happened to all that furious spin
momentum? I think that at some point, the proto-
Sun spun so fast that the heavier elements, which
must have been pushed out to near the protoSun>s
equator, exploded outward from that equator to
form the planetary accretion disk. And when this
event took place, the protoSun almost stopped its
rotation completely. Gravity continued to compress
it, and as it did, the protoSun>s spin speed picked
up a little.

Then, by the time the protoSun fused to become a
hydrogen-burning star, enough of the material in
the accretion disk had formed together in large
enough clumps that would stay in their orbits when
the fusing Sun>s initial and super-powerful Solar
wind exploded outward. That Solar wind carried
all the remaining small stuff out beyond Neptune to
form the objects in the Kuiper belt.

That>s why i think the Sun spins so slowly!

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net
[/quote]

It could be that the Sun rotates faster nearer its core than at the
edge of its equator. then its angular momentum would be greater. The
Earth is thought to roatate faster at its sold core, enveloped by
liquid magma, but not by much. The Sun is observed to rotate faster
at the equator than at the poles. Tidal forces can slow the outer
surface of a body down more than the core, if it is fluid.

Double-A

oldcoot · Guest

On Jul 31, 11:15 am, "Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> wrote:
[quote]
What could have happened to all that furious spin
momentum? I think that at some point, the proto-
Sun spun so fast that the heavier elements, which
must have been pushed out to near the protoSun>s
equator, exploded outward from that equator to
form the planetary accretion disk.

Heh. Not that i agree, but as mentioned in a prior discussion of this[/quote]
subject, such an outbound explosion along the equatorial plane would
be a small-scale analog of the CBB "explosion" (actually a 'snapshot
in time' of the expansion phase of the CBB process).
[quote]
And when this
event took place, the protoSun almost stopped its
rotation completely. Gravity continued to compress
it, and as it did, the protoSun>s spin speed picked
up a little.

Lively speculation, amigo. But if there were such a thing as a[/quote]
(spinning) BH reaching criticality and exploding in such a 'one shot'
event, it would have to be an equatorial explosion. This was discussed
here years ago, possibly before your appearance on the scene. Wolter
had hypothesized such a 'one-shot' BH event wherein if the *tangental
velocity* at the singularity>s rim reached c, it would explode a ring
of newly-creatred mass back into 'our' reality. The ejected ring would
travel outward equatorially from the BH. This would drop the spin
below c, making the BH quiescent again.

G=EMC^2 Glazier · Guest

Double A Well Belgium is more in the right direction in regard to
Sweden,and I just threw it in to be cute go figure Bert

G=EMC^2 Glazier · Guest

Painius could slow spin of the Sun be from not bringing in its
accretion disk fast enough?(like ice skaters do) or having such a great
gravitational mass using Mach idea on the rest of the universe(stars)
creating it to revolve slower and slower over time? Bert

G=EMC^2 Glazier · Guest

Painius The slightest curve relates to acceleration,so you can easily
see acceleration and angular motion are two sides to the same coin bert

Painius · Guest

"G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbertglazier@webtv.net> wrote...
in message news:15877-4891D647-151@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net...
[quote]
Painius could slow spin of the Sun be from not bringing in its
accretion disk fast enough?(like ice skaters do) or having such a great
gravitational mass using Mach idea on the rest of the universe(stars)
creating it to revolve slower and slower over time? Bert
[/quote]
Here>s my reasoning, Bert...

From what we know (or think we know) about the
origin of our Solar System, it seems pretty obvious
that our Sun spun around furiously at some point,
probably before it became a fusor, a star. And now,
it>s just as obvious that the Sun is rotating only very
slowly, such a great mass, 99.8% of the mass of
the entire Solar System, just trudging along at a
very slow rate of spin.

What could have happened to all that furious spin
momentum? I think that at some point, the proto-
Sun spun so fast that the heavier elements, which
must have been pushed out to near the protoSun>s
equator, exploded outward from that equator to
form the planetary accretion disk. And when this
event took place, the protoSun almost stopped its
rotation completely. Gravity continued to compress
it, and as it did, the protoSun>s spin speed picked
up a little.

Then, by the time the protoSun fused to become a
hydrogen-burning star, enough of the material in
the accretion disk had formed together in large
enough clumps that would stay in their orbits when
the fusing Sun>s initial and super-powerful Solar
wind exploded outward. That Solar wind carried
all the remaining small stuff out beyond Neptune to
form the objects in the Kuiper belt.

That>s why i think the Sun spins so slowly!

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

Painius · Guest

"Double-A" <double-a2@hush.com> wrote in message...
news:a32f8e0d-c43a-4888-aaf7-a78ab2cda0bc@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
[quote]On Jul 31, 11:15 am, "Painius" <starswirlern...@maol.com> wrote:
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" <herbertglaz...@webtv.net> wrote...
in messagenews:15877-4891D647-151@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net...

Painius could slow spin of the Sun be from not bringing in its
accretion disk fast enough?(like ice skaters do) or having such a great
gravitational mass using Mach idea on the rest of the universe(stars)
creating it to revolve slower and slower over time? Bert

Here>s my reasoning, Bert...

From what we know (or think we know) about the
origin of our Solar System, it seems pretty obvious
that our Sun spun around furiously at some point,
probably before it became a fusor, a star. And now,
it>s just as obvious that the Sun is rotating only very
slowly, such a great mass, 99.8% of the mass of
the entire Solar System, just trudging along at a
very slow rate of spin.

What could have happened to all that furious spin
momentum? I think that at some point, the proto-
Sun spun so fast that the heavier elements, which
must have been pushed out to near the protoSun>s
equator, exploded outward from that equator to
form the planetary accretion disk. And when this
event took place, the protoSun almost stopped its
rotation completely. Gravity continued to compress
it, and as it did, the protoSun>s spin speed picked
up a little.

Then, by the time the protoSun fused to become a
hydrogen-burning star, enough of the material in
the accretion disk had formed together in large
enough clumps that would stay in their orbits when
the fusing Sun>s initial and super-powerful Solar
wind exploded outward. That Solar wind carried
all the remaining small stuff out beyond Neptune to
form the objects in the Kuiper belt.

That>s why i think the Sun spins so slowly!

It could be that the Sun rotates faster nearer its core than at the
edge of its equator. then its angular momentum would be greater. The
Earth is thought to roatate faster at its sold core, enveloped by
liquid magma, but not by much. The Sun is observed to rotate faster
at the equator than at the poles. Tidal forces can slow the outer
surface of a body down more than the core, if it is fluid.

Double-A
[/quote]
I read an interesting article on that subject, AA...

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070507_solar_ripples.html

"'The core of the Sun seems to rotate about three to five
times faster (than speeds at the surface) on average,'
Garcia told LiveScience.

"Current theories of solar formation suggest the original
cloud of matter that gave rise to the solar system had a
high rate of rotation, a remnant of which 'could exist in
the deepest regions of the Sun,' Garcia said. 'It seems
that the solar core rotation is slower than expected by
those theories,' he added."

Placing those mainstream theories in deep yogurt, i>d say.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

Bob Cain · Guest

Sam Wormley wrote:
[quote]Bob Cain wrote:

Energy is proportional to the square of the angular velocity while
angular momentum is only proportional to the velocity. This means
that the way to store the most rotational _energy_ is just spokes, no
rim, made of whatever material has the highest ratio of tensile
strength to mass.

Bob

Please rethink this Bob.
[/quote]
Ok. I>ll get back to you when I have more than a moment to rethink it. :-)

Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein


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