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Jack
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 Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: A Not-Too-Hypothetical Case |
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true.blue.bluey@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]mimus wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:54:22 -0500, Jack wrote:
mimus wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:36:16 -0800, humbert.engledink
wrote:
Jack wrote:
sandy.bloxs@gmail.com wrote:
Jack wrote:
mimus wrote:
An incredibly wealthy man purchased all the
Rembrandts he could, Rembrandt after Rembrandt,
and after purchasing each destroyed it.
Was there anything wrong with that? he bought
them, didn>t he? they were his, weren>t they?
Guess that depends on how you define "wrong."
There would be some pleasure lost by people who
would have enjoyed looking at the paintings.
More than that - this philistine has committed a
massive crime against our culture by destroying some
if its important artifacts.
In the same way that buildings are heritage-listed
and protected from sleezy philistine property
developers, important cultural artifacts can also
be protected.
You>ll find, incidentally, that 99.9% of artifacts
important to our modern civilisation were created by
white european men. Without white european men, we
wouldn>t have modern civilisation.
So what>s so great about "modern civilization?"
You>re a moron if you even have to ask that question.
Housing, sewerage, water, electricity, roads, schools,
hospitals, aeroplanes, and of course - for all the
useless whingers - the dole office.
Much of what you list the Emegireans (Sumerians) had,
and most the Romans.
And I notice you didn>t mention anything about any
improvement in morals . . . .
Or happiness.
I actually believe there are some slight improvements in
both with regard to "the masses", although there are
still hellholes a-plenty . . . .
And the ruling classes are still for the most part right
bastards.
What a load of codswallop.
Why do you reject the notion of progress?
[/quote]
That>s what Columbus told the Arawaks.
[quote]
You clearly cling to the silly notion of the "noble
savage", a ludicrous upper-class fancy of the 18th
century.
Can you truly think of another time in history where you
would rather live?
Would you seriously consider living in an age preceding
the discovery of antibiotics?
[/quote]
No I wouldn>t. Anesthetics too. But it>s also a load of codswallop to
pretend that modernization hasn>t been a mixed bag. |
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Jack
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: A Not-Too-Hypothetical Case |
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mimus wrote:
[quote]On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:13:25 +1100, SORR Point wrote:
sandy.bloxs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b1ce0c55-f8d0-480d-b6cd-4d123dc4f308@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Jack wrote:
mimus wrote:
An incredibly wealthy man purchased all the
Rembrandts he could, Rembrandt after Rembrandt, and
after purchasing each destroyed it.
Was there anything wrong with that? he bought them,
didn>t he? they were his, weren>t they?
Guess that depends on how you define "wrong."
There would be some pleasure lost by people who would
have enjoyed looking
at the paintings.
More than that - this philistine has committed a
massive crime against our culture by destroying some if
its important artifacts.
In the same way that buildings are heritage-listed and
protected from sleezy philistine property developers,
important cultural artifacts can also be protected.
You>ll find, incidentally, that 99.9% of artifacts
important to our modern civilisation were created by
white european men. Without white european men, we
wouldn>t have modern civilisation.
Given modern western civilisation IS a White one, not
hard to work out that
99.9% of the civilisations arifacts were created by
White people. DOH! :-)
That>s about as significant as saying that 99.9% of the
decendants of white people, are, well WHITE!
Africans also had a civilisation and more, and blow me
down if 100% of those important artifacts were created
by gosh, BLACK & Coloured People.
And the Indian Rajs, you know those MUSLIMS .... they
built things like the Taj Mahal.
The colured arabic mesopotamian mediteranean african
roots of the Muslim Ottaman Empire, saved the White mans
civilisation from remaining in the Dark Ages!!! DOH !
Muslims whose multi-disciplinary contributions sparked
the light of learning and productivity and without whom
the European Renaissance would not have begun and come
to maturity. Their contributions are rarely mentioned in
formal education, and if at all mentioned their names
are Latinized or changed with the effect of obscuring
their identity and origin, and their association with
the Islamic Civilization.
And of course there>s the hard FACT that the Greeks, and
the Romans gained 99% of their knowledge from the
African Egyptians .... you have heard of the Pyramids
haven>t you Sandy? <vbg
They were built by AFRICANS when the Europens were still
hunter gathers with no agriculture, happily wallowing in
pig shit and freezing most of the time.
The Aborignals of Australia were doing High Art 80,000
years before the Egyptians and the White folk. For
80,000 plus years they lived in a civilisation which
coivered the entire land mass of Australia in over 200
separate defined nations, with a viable Legal System,
that kept their environment in tact and sustainable
maintaining over 1 billion people in that time and not
losing one square inch of useful land in the process
..... within 200 years the White had nearly destroyed
that environment, and now erosion and salinity and
droughts are worse than ever.
The White Civilisation, for all the good things it has
brought, has destroyed countless Civilisations before
it, ravaged the lands and forests, enslaved peoples, and
are the most ignorant, dogmatic, foolish, illogical and
WAR Like civilisation ever to the exist on the Planet,
and still are to this day.
Ask anyone who isn;t white or christian and they will
fill you in on the miriad of details that are just as
important as any modern *white* civilisation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization
Some classicly important civilisations include::
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China
http://www.sbs.com.au/firstaustralians/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:African_civilizations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_architecture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Tibet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angkor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Thailand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toltec
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapotec_civilization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikijunior:Ancient_Civilizations/Mound_Builders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas
and on it goes ..... NONE of these were White folks!!!
DOH. :)
Just because one happens to be alive today when the
warring whites are on top of their game, well, that>s
just an accident of history and timing, and it has been
just a flash in the pan as far as the *time* of western
civilisation has existed goes.
Seems pretty obvious too, that it>s currently playing
out it>s end game, FOR all things that have a beginning,
must also have an end.
You should check out _The Iceman Inheritance_.
You>d like it.
[/quote]
You might like _Guns, Germs & Steel_. |
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Jack
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: A Not-Too-Hypothetical Case |
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humbert.engledink@gmail.com wrote:
[quote]David Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:11:53 -0800 (PST),
sandy.bloxs@gmail.com wrote:
Jack wrote:
mimus wrote:
An incredibly wealthy man purchased all the
Rembrandts he could, Rembrandt after Rembrandt, and
after purchasing each destroyed it.
Was there anything wrong with that? he bought them,
didn>t he? they were his, weren>t they?
Guess that depends on how you define "wrong."
There would be some pleasure lost by people who would
have enjoyed looking at the paintings.
More than that - this philistine has committed a
massive crime against our culture by destroying some if
its important artifacts.
In the same way that buildings are heritage-listed and
protected from sleezy philistine property developers,
important cultural artifacts can also be protected.
You>ll find, incidentally, that 99.9% of artifacts
important to our modern civilisation were created by
white european men.
Important in what way? Certainly when I go into a
museum I see lots and lots of artifacts from Asia and
the Americas that seem to have been important enough to
be put there.
So important that they are locked away in a dusty museum?
Precisely.
[/quote]
So important they>ll be on your dinner plate tonight, in the form of
domesticated food products. |
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SORR Point
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: A Not-Too-Hypothetical Case |
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<humbert.engledink@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:90a5e18a-4a05-4cfb-b638-9c279c26c926@u29g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
[quote]
SORR Point wrote:
sandy.bloxs@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b1ce0c55-f8d0-480d-b6cd-4d123dc4f308@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
You>ll find, incidentally, that 99.9% of artifacts important to our
modern civilisation were created by white european men. Without white
european men, we wouldn>t have modern civilisation.
Given modern western civilisation IS a White one, not hard to work out
that
99.9% of the civilisations arifacts were created by White people. DOH!
:-)
That>s about as significant as saying that 99.9% of the decendants of
white
people, are, well WHITE!
I certainly hope so.
Africans also had a civilisation and more, and blow me down if 100% of
those
important artifacts were created by gosh, BLACK & Coloured People.
What civilisation? My arse they had any. Look at them today -
continent full of hopeless savages.
[/quote]
<smile> Well one could look at any period of time, and see very many
different things.
4,500 years ago africans were finishing the 3rd great pyramid ... whilst
white europeans and the greeks were hunter gatherers living in thatched huts
if they were lucky.
Then one could look at the Whites great progress by taking another snapshot
in very recent years at Chechnya, Kosovo, Bosnia, napalm in Vietnam, and
most recently their activities in Falluja Iraq.
20 million white soldiers died on the Front lines of France in the First
World War, maybe that would qualify as "hopeless savagery" as well.
So, things change. Civilisations they come and go, and then there are also
high points and low points.
Africa Civilisations also included
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthaginian_Empire from 575BC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kerma from 2500BC
and in central africa was
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kongo
They farmed by at least 1000 BC and worked iron by at least 400 BC.
Excavations at Madingo Kayes along the Atlantic coast to the north have
established that complex societies existed in the region since the early
centuries of the Common Era. Pottery sequences for the region are
unestablished, though the style that was prevalent at the time the kingdom
is identified in historical records (post 1483) appears to have started
around 1100.
[quote]And the Indian Rajs, you know those MUSLIMS .... they built things like
the
Taj Mahal.
OK, that>s 1 Taj Mahal - that>ll fit into the 0.1% of the total of
human achievement that didn>t come out of white western man.
[/quote]
<smile> and where did you get that 0.1% figure from??
Yes the Taj Mahal is only one significant building ... but there are many
many more, and those are even more spectacular actually.
The Islamic Golden Age, also sometimes known as the Islamic Renaissance,[1]
was traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 13th century C.E.,[2]
but has been extended to the 15th[3] and 16th[4] centuries by recent
scholarship. During this period, artists, engineers, scholars, poets,
philosophers, geographers and traders in the Islamic world contributed to
the arts, agriculture, economics, industry, law, literature, navigation,
philosophy, sciences, sociology, and technology, both by preserving and
building upon earlier traditions and by adding inventions and innovations of
their own.[5] Howard R. Turner writes: "Muslim artists and scientists,
princes and laborers together made a unique culture that has directly and
indirectly influenced societies on every continent."[5]
Before the fine Christian cathederals were built there were things like
these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ShahC2.JPG
------------------------
http://album.alexfung.info/album/med99/turkey/istanbul/full/bluemosq.jpg
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1609/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1609-9705.jpg
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=95924&rendTypeId=4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Mosque 700ad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Goharshad2.jpg
This Mosque built circa 750ad accomodated 80,000 at one go
http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=337
"The mosque, and its attendant structures, madrasa, arms-houses,
infirmaries, caravansarais, a medical school, hamams, schools of Tradition,
a hospital, cells and shops were begun in 1550 by the architect Sinan and
completed in 1557."
http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Suyleman_Mosque.html
and 20th century Muslim architecture like this example:
http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=913
This is a good tool:
http://www.muslimheritage.com/virtual_civilization/default.cfm |
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David Johnston
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: Re: A Not-Too-Hypothetical Case |
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On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:10:39 -0800 (PST), true.blue.bluey@gmail.com
wrote:
[quote]
David Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:01:05 -0800 (PST), true.blue.bluey@gmail.com
wrote:
David Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:59:24 -0800 (PST), true.blue.bluey@gmail.com
wrote:
David Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:20:13 -0800 (PST), humbert.engledink@gmail.com
wrote:
David Johnston wrote:
On Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:11:53 -0800 (PST), sandy.bloxs@gmail.com wrote:
Jack wrote:
mimus wrote:
An incredibly wealthy man purchased all the Rembrandts he
could, Rembrandt after Rembrandt, and after purchasing
each destroyed it.
Was there anything wrong with that? he bought them,
didn>t he? they were his, weren>t they?
Guess that depends on how you define "wrong."
There would be some pleasure lost by people who would have enjoyed looking
at the paintings.
More than that - this philistine has committed a massive crime against
our culture by destroying some if its important artifacts.
In the same way that buildings are heritage-listed and protected from
sleezy philistine property developers, important cultural artifacts
can also be protected.
You>ll find, incidentally, that 99.9% of artifacts important to our
modern civilisation were created by white european men.
Important in what way? Certainly when I go into a museum I see lots
and lots of artifacts from Asia and the Americas that seem to have
been important enough to be put there.
So important that they are locked away in a dusty museum?
Precisely.
You mean as opposed to Rembrandts? Oh...wait. Rembrandts are put in
museums as well. So I guess Rembrandts aren>t important either.
WHat>s a Rembrandt worth, compared with one of your dusty indian
relics?
So you>re saying anything that sells for millions is important to our
civilisation?
Must be, or it wouldn>t be worth millions. We>ll know for sure how
important it is if it>s still worth millions in 1000 years' time.
Your dusty crap crafted by head-hunting savages, however, will still
be dusty rubbish.
What>s the cutoff price point at which objects stop being important?
A type of historiometry can give you an idea of what things are worth.
Get every expert in art on the planet to name their ten favourite
pieces of art.
Any piece of art named in at least (say) 50% of these lists can then
be compared.
Ditto with any other field of expertise.
The bottom line is that almost all the important achievements of the
human race occurred in Britain, France, Germany, and Italy between
1400-1950, and also North America for the period since, with the next
biggest achievers being Europe in ancient times..
[/quote]
In ancient times Europe was a rural backwater and the civilised parts
of the world were the Middle East, India and Eastern China. |
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