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Marc Verhaegen
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 Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: SF now thinks sealions make tools... |
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SF snipped this:
Waterside food collection (fruits/(coco)nuts, turtle/bird eggs,
shell/crayfish, water(side)plants, drowned bovids, stranded whales...)
explains unique Homo traits (not in apes/australopiths) better than forest
or plains dwelling:
-large brain (frequent in water(side) mammals),
-slow-diving skills (record >100 m! typical for divers for sessile foods),
-voluntary breath control (record >10 min.!), preadaptation for speech),
-small mouth & biting muscles (suction feeding?),
-tongue bone descent (suction feeding?),
-projecting nose (in semi-aquatics),
-poor sense of smell (disproves savanna dwelling),
-handiness/tools (thick enamel, durophagy, common in waterside mammals),
-late puberty & long life span (opposite of savanna mammals),
-alined head-spine-legs (water resistance),
-flat feet (disprove savanna dwelling),
-fur loss (frequent in tropical (semi)aquatics),
-fatness (typical of species that spend a lot oftime in water),
-reduced climbing,
-profuse sweating (as in sealions on land, requires water & sodum, scarce on
savannas),
-high needs of water (drinking, low renal concentration),
-high needs of sodium (esp.seaside),
-high needs of iodine (coast),
-poly-unsaturated fatty acids (eg, DHA), in abundance in aquatic foods,
-etc.
[quote]All these features are present *in different combinations* in (semi)aquatic
animals, but strikingly absent in typical savanna mammals.
[/quote]
SF:
[quote]Who made the stone tools found on the savanna, sealions????
[/quote]
all stone tools, my little boy, were found next to rivers/lakes/seas:
Overall, there are many different lines of evidence that point to the
evolution of Homo at the water¹s edge. The waterside model is based in the
first place on comparative anatomical data such as subcutaneous fat and lack
of fur (Westenhöfer 1942, Hardy 1960), but nutritional, and comparative
behavioural data are also compatible. It is often assumed the real Œhard
evidence¹ (stones and tools) points to a savannah existence for early Homo
species such as erectus and ergaster. Our research, however, suggests the
earliest Homo fossils and artefacts and those throughout the Pleistocene are
consistently associated with habitats in which water was apparently
plentiful, and where underwater foraging would have been both possible for
human ancestors and rewarding.
Although the fauna associated with early Homo sites is often cited as
evidence in support of the open, semi-arid view (Reed 1997), these data are
at best ambiguous when the waterside model is also taken into account.
Palaeoecological evidence associated with Homo fossil and archaeological
sites suggests to us that Homo may well have been a waterside dweller (Munro
2004).
Although, due to taphonomic considerations, caution is required when
interpreting fossil and archaeological data, the results of our preliminary
survey reveal that from its earliest appearance, all Homo sites (i.e.,
fossil Homo sites as well as archaeological sites presumed to be Homo) are
typically and consistently associated with waterside contexts.
Homo Sites Older than 0.2 Ma (Mega-anni, Million Years Ago)
At Gona, Ethiopia, 2.5 Ma-old stone tools were deposited in ³floodplain
environments, close to margins of channels that carried the volcanic cobbles
used as raw materials for tool manufacture² (Semaw et al. 1997: 333).
Nearby, in the Hata Member of the Bouri Formation, hominid fossils of a
similar age to the Gona deposits were discovered in sediments containing
sandstone with bivalve and gastropod shells ³deposited by fluvial processes
associated with floodplains along distributary channels close to a shallow
fluctuating lake² (de Heinzelin et al. 1999: 625). This Member also reveals
evidence of cut and percussion marks on bones of medium and large-sized
bovids, though stone tools have so far not been discovered.
The Homo maxilla AL 666, dated to 2.3 Ma, along with a stone tool assemblage
(though no signs of butchering), was recovered from deposits of the Hadar
Formation, suggesting a landscape which was ³predominantly open, with
wetlands and bushed or wooded grasslands, and with stands of trees close to
the water source² (Kimbel et al. 1996: 559).
At Olduvai Gorge, Plio-Pleistocene Homo remains are associated with deposits
containing ³cemented aggregates of the small benthic, freshwater clam
Corbicula² as well as crocodiles, hippos and fish (Blumenschine et al. 2003:
1220). Cut and percussion marks are found on a percentage (4.2 and 8.3%
respectively) of the long bones of larger mammals. Fish and gastropods,
judging by the remains of Œliving sites¹, might have been consumed at
Olduvai Gorge, while the avian fauna included abundant waders (flamingoes,
herons, storks, rails, jacanas, plovers, sandpipers and stilts), swimmers
and divers (grebes, cormorants, pelicans and ducks) as well as marine birds
(gulls, terns and skimmers) (Leakey 1979).
The earliest occurrence of the genus Homo in the Turkana Basin is associated
with floodplain deposits in which gastropods, fish, crocodiles, bovids,
equids, suids, cercopithecids and hippopotamids occur (Pratt et al. 2005).
During Plio-Pleistocene times the Turkana Basin contained a large lake
fringed by swampy wetlands as indicated by the numerous fossils of
hippopotamids, crocodiles, fish (including a stingray, suggesting a marine
connection at the time), gastropods, bivalves, sponges and numerous
ostracods. Lung fish, water bucks, cane rats, monkeys, giraffes, buffaloes,
camels, rhinoceroses and elephants suggest a rich mosaic of wet, dry, open
and closed habitats in the vicinity of an extensive lake, or large river
(Feibel et al. 1991).
The most complete skeleton of an early Homo specimen, KNM-WT 15000, the
so-called ŒTurkana Boy¹ of Nariokotome, Kenya, was discovered on the western
side of the Turkana Basin. It lay among reeds and hippopotamid footprints,
and the most abundant faunal remains associated with it were water snails,
fish and turtles (see Table 6).
The Plio-Pleistocene Shungara Formation in the Omo Basin contains an
archaeological assemblage as well as molluscs (including freshwater oyster
Etheria reefs), fish, crocodiles, hippopotamids, bovids, cercopithecids,
turtles, suids and other vertebrates. The archaeological occurrences ³are
all in proximal river settings² (Clark Howell et al. 1987: 696).
In the Western Rift Valley, the Senga 5A site (22.3 Ma) contains artefacts
associated with gastropods, bivalves, fish, hippopotamids, suids and bovids
in a ³low-energy littoral lacustrine setting² (Harris et al. 1987: 724).
Table 6. Taxa found in Unit 2 at Nariokotome III (from Walker and Leakey
1993)
Taxa Lifestyle and habitat
Pila ovata Air-breathing, shallow-water swamp snail
Claria sp. Shallow-water catfish
Clarotes sp. Catfish
Hydrocynus sp. Shallow- to deep-water fish predator
Synodontis sp. Shallow-water spiny catfish
Varanus niloticus Scavenging and often aquatic lizard
Trionyx sp. Soft-shelled freshwater turtle
Pelomedusidae spp. Smooth-shelled water tortoise
Homo erectus Hominid (specific habitat unknown)
Metridiochoerus sp. Grazing pig
Hippopotamus aethiopicus Aquatic herbivore
Hippopotamus gorgops Aquatic herbivore
Bovidae spp. (duiker- to buffalo-sized) Grazing and browsing herbivores
Lepus capensis Grass and herb feeder
The Plio-Pleistocene Chiwondo Beds of Malawi have yielded Homo fossils as
well as fragmented remains of fish, turtles, crocodiles and large mammals.
They also contain molluscs ³in consolidated beds of carbonate cemented
sandstone. Molluscan shell beds crop out as benches up to several meters
thick and several hundred meters wide² (Schrenk et al. 1995: 59).
The late Pliocene Chemeron hominid (KNM-BC 1) was deposited in a lake filled
basin where fish remains were abundant: ³Molluscs also lived in the lake,
and locally their remains accumulated to form shelly limestones. Š There is
little doubt that the fossil came from the Upper Fish Beds² (Martyn and
Tobias 1967).
The Dmanisi Homo fossil site, dated to 1.8 Ma, is located at the confluence
of two rivers, where at the time a lake or pond had formed due to the
blocking of a river by a lava stream. ³The hominid site itself was likely
located near a lake or pond, rich in lacustrine resources. This biome,
together with the adjacent forest-steppe formations, created a highly
productive ecotone rich in animal and plant resources² (David Lordkipanidze,
personal communication to MV). The inhabitants might have eaten hackberrys,
since abundant seeds have been found at this site (Gabunia et al. 2000).
Early Pleistocene archaeological sites from the Jordan Valley include
Erk-el-Ahmar and ¹Ubeidiya. These sites are associated with lacustrine and
fluvial deposits rich in fresh water gastropod and bivalve remains as well
as fish, turtles, hippos and birds (Bar-Yosef and Tchernov 1972).
Aïn Hanech, an archaeological site in Algeria dated to about 1.8 Ma, was
formed on an alluvial floodplain cut by a meandering river (an oxbow lake),
and may indicate repeated activities by hominids at a shallow river
embankment (Sahnouni et al. 2002).
At Pabbi Hills, Pakistan, artefacts of Pliocene age (2 Ma) have been
discovered in deposits which also contain crocodiles, turtles, aquatic
gastropods and bivalves. The molluscs suggest a large, slow-moving river
with clean, shallow water less than five meters deep, analogous to
unpolluted sections of the Ganges River (Dennell 2004).
The site of Mojokerto (Perning), on the Island of Java has been dated to
between 1.5 and 1.8 Ma. This coastal deltaic environment (Huffman 2006)
contained fresh water and marine molluscs, which would have been easily
procured and consumed by early hominid inhabitants (Frank Wesselingh,
personal communication to SM).
At Sangiran, also on Java, where H. erectus was found, ³a thin layer of
diatoms (uni-cellular marine phytoplankton) and dark clays with a marine
musselfauna was deposited by the sea, as was noticed and described before by
Professor Martin from Leiden² (von Koenigswald 1981).
Hominids on Java were using mollusc shells to butcher mammals, presumably to
gain access to nutritious meats, as early as 1.5 Ma (Choi and Driwantoro
2007).
The archaeological site of Majuangou (Nihewan), in China, recently dated to
1.66 Ma, reveals that hominids inhabited a lake filled basin, where the
remains of aquatic molluscs, and the leaves and fruits of aquatic plants
have been discovered, indicating a low energy lakeshore or marsh environment
(Zhu et al. 2004).
In the Middle Awash of Ethiopia, the Daka Member of the Bouri Formation,
dated to 1 Ma, contains artefacts, Homo erectus cranial and post cranial
bones, abundant hippo fossils, as well as gastropods and bivalves associated
with alluvial, lakeside beaches or shallow water deposits in distributary
channels (Asfaw et al. 2002).
Buia, in Ethiopia, contains Homo erectus fossils and artefacts dated to 1
Ma. These occur in deltaic deposits of the Alat Formation, which also
contains fish and freshwater gastropod (Melanoides) remains (Abbate et al.
2004). Evidence that hominids butchered medium to large-sized bovids,
hippos, and a crocodile, also come from these deposits (Fiore et al. 2004).
A partial Homo cranium from the same stratigraphic level as Acheulian
artefacts from Olorgesailie, Kenya, has been dated to between 0.97 and 0.9
Ma. The sandy silt adhered to the frontal bone of this specimen contained
amphibian bones and the tooth of the swamp rat Otomys sp., which today
inhabits thick grasses in and around the swamps, lakes and rivers of East
Africa (Potts et al. 2004).
The Angolan site of Dungo V reveals evidence for the exploitation of a large
whale (Balaenoptera sp.) on a former beach possibly more than 1 Ma. Closely
associated with the whale skeleton were numerous Lower Palaeolithic
artefacts, together with numerous molluscs, other marine invertebrates and
shark teeth (Gutierrez et al. 2001).
The earliest evidence for human activity in northern Europe comes from the
site of Pakefield, England, about 0.7 Ma, where artefacts from estuarine
silts containing marine fauna have been discovered. The majority of
artefacts derive from ŒUnio bed¹ coastal river deposits (Parfitt et al.
2005).
Homo Sites from 200 ka to 50 ka (Kilo-anni, Thousand Years Ago)
The earliest evidence for H. sapiens in the fossil record comes from the
Ethiopian Kibish Formation in deposits dated to 195 ka. This formation
consists of ³flat-lying, tectonically undisturbed, unconsolidated sediments
deposited mainly in deltaic environments over brief periods² (McDougal et
al. 2005: 733). Human remains derive from essentially the same archeological
level that remains of the fresh water oyster Etheria have been found.
Also in Ethiopia, H. sapiens and stone artefacts occur in the Herto Member
of the Bouri Formation at 160 ka. This member contains gastropods, bivalves
and (often butchered) hippopotamus bones, testifying to a waterside setting
(Clark et al. 2003).
In Eritrea, the 125-ka-old Abdur Archaeological Site, on exposed Red Sea
reefs, indicates that humans were using tools to ³harvest shallow marine
food resources and possibly to butcher large land mammals on the ancient
shoreline² (Bruggemann et al. 2004: 180).
On the Mediterranean coast of Africa, the Haua Fteah site reveals evidence
that H. sapiens were harvesting and consuming shellfish 80100 ka (McBurney
1967), while at the coastal sites of Gibraltar (Barton et al. 1999) and
Liguria (Stiner 1994) there is evidence that H. neanderthalensis was
collecting and consuming shellfish.
Along the African Cape coasts there are many Middle Stone Age (MSA) sites
with abundant shellfish and other marine food remains. The total number of
sites may be in the hundreds. These sites are associated with some of the
earliest modern human remains (see review in Broadhurst et al. 2002). The
best known is Klasies River Mouth, where 20 meter deep shell middens occur,
mostly dating to Oxygen Isotope Stage 5 (Grun et al. 1990, Deacon 1992).
These deposits show ³evidence for the exploitation of marine resources²
(Thackeray 1988: 27). The shell middens associated with Blombos Cave, dated
to 80100 ka, indicate that marine molluscs were the ³most abundant category
of food waste² (Henshilwood et al. 2001: 441) and at Die Kelders the cave
deposits contain ³bones of seals, dolphins and marine birds² (Grine et al.
1991: 375).
On the Atlantic coast, the sites of Sea Harvest, Hoedjies Punt and
Ysterfontein reveal evidence that the inhabitants were harvesting marine
limpets and mussels (Volman 1978, Klein et al. 2004). Many more west coast
MSA shell middens are known, but are as yet unexcavated.
The adipose tissue and organs of seals and sea birds, and the egg yolks of
sea birds and turtles, which consume exclusively marine/littoral foods, are
rich in DHA (Broadhurst et al. 1998, Speake et al. 1999). Cape penguins
could have been scavenged or even hunted fairly easily, especially the eggs
and nestlings. Collecting fresh eggs and live flightless nestling birds in a
littoral environment could therefore have potentially provided the greatest
amount of LC-PUFA (long-chain poly-unsaturated fatty acids) for the least
amount of effort of any terrestrial food source known (Broadhurst et al.
2002).
Evidence from the Willandra Lakes in Australia confirms that at least by
5046 ka (Bowler et al. 2003) and possibly as early as 63 ka (Thorne et al.
1999, but see also Bowler and Magee 2000, Gillespie and Roberts 2000, and
Grun et al. 2000), humans were creating shell middens dominated by the fresh
water mussel Velesunio, and hearths containing remains of the golden perch
Plectroplites (Bowler et al. 1970). The earliest evidence of human
occupation from New Guinea comes from uplifted coral reef terraces on the
Huon Peninsula, which reveal some of the earliest (possibly 4553 ka)
examples of hafted axes known anywhere in the world (Groube et al. 1986).
Significantly, coastal fossil and archaeological sites older than about 125
ka are extremely rare because most coastal caves are younger than 125 ka, or
have been flushed of older deposits by wave action or other erosion (Klein
et al. 2004). Sea levels for much of the Pleistocene were lower than today,
so the vast majority of Pleistocene coasts are now under water. Despite
this, a number of Homo fossil sites older than 125 ka are known, such as the
1.5- or 1.8-Ma-old Indonesian site of Mojokerto, the whale butchering site
of Angola, and the 700-ka-old Pakefield site from England. The non-coastal
sites are generally associated with permanent water bodies such as rivers
and lakes, that in most cases appear to have been connected, at least for a
time, with the coast, for instance Turkana, Dmanisi, Nihewan, Erq el-Ahmar,
Aïn Hanech, and Pabbi Hills.
H. sapiens appears to have a strong correlation with shellfish, starting
with its earliest appearance in the fossil record, and continuing throughout
the Pleistocene and Holocene to modern times. Huge shell midden and evidence
of aquatic exploitation are known from coasts, rivers and lakeside settings
all over the world from recent times well back into the Pleistocene (see
Fairbridge 1976, Meehan 1982, Shackleton and van Andel 1986, Waselkov 1987,
Erlandson 2001).
The data presented here are far from complete (archaic H. sapiens fossil
sites from China, for example, are not included) and we acknowledge that a
more detailed survey is necessary to provide a clearer picture. Yet, as far
as we know, this is not an unrepresentative sketch of what is currently
known about early fossil and archaeological Homo sites, and H. sapiens sites
in particular from Africa prior to the last glacial. Even if there is a
clear association between Homo remains, however, and permanent water and
shellfish, this can not in itself be seen as proof that Homo was a
water-side dweller. Other lines of evidence are important. |
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Marc Verhaegen
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: savanna fool now thinks eshleman & moore are serious PAs... |
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Op 30-11-2008 15:04, in artikel
778160fc-eaed-41d6-a9e3-1a67d54aa014@k24g2000pri.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:
[quote]On Nov 30, 5:46 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
why not cite serious PAs??
ok,
Message-ID: <1124421294.671438.286120@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com
Jason Eshleman: "You, Marc, are a low-life, a real sleazebag
sociopath. If it makes you feel
better to repeat ad nauseum that no one has an argument against your
scenario, you really ought to get your medication adjusted. It might
actually make you less of a dickhead.
You are asking for someone to contradict something
that you>ve not made a case for. You are asking someone to prove a
negative. This isn>t science, though I suspect you don>t know what
science is and as such will continue your mentally ill diatribes."
http://www.aquaticape.org/whataat.html
Jim Moore:
"Marc Verhaegen now also often takes umbrage if you critique an AAT/H
claim that
he doesn>t make himself. But then taking umbrage seems to be a
specialty with him;
his online method tends toward gratuitous insults, often as the sole
content of his
newsgroup posts, and continually reposting the same, non-responsive,
paragraphs
(earning him the nickname "macro-man" after the usual technique for
doing that),
and, starting from his very first online post in 1998, comparing his
position to Wegener,
Galileo, etc. These methods certainly don>t help his argument,
instead placing his online
newsgroup contributions in the realm of the netloon."[/quote] |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Wetloon now thinks sealions make tools... |
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On Nov 30, 6:26 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
<Complete nonsense>
Here are the facts...
Loren Cordain, Bruce A. Watkins, Neil J. Mann
Fatty Acid Composition and Energy Density
of Foods Available to African Hominids
Evolutionary Implications for Human Brain Development
World Rev Nutr Diet. Basel, Karger, 2001, vol 90, pp 144–161
"With the emergence of species of our own genus (Homo habilis) at
least 2.3
million years ago [1], a rapid increase in hominid brain mass relative
to body
mass (encephalization) occurred [2, 3]. Figure 1 shows that the range
of cranial
capacities for Homo habilis significantly exceeded that of earlier
Australopithecus
species, whose brain volumes remained constant for at least 2 million
years.
Slightly prior to the emergence of Homo habilis in the fossil record
was the
appearance of primitive stone tools [4] whose function was to butcher
and disarticulate
either scavenged or hunted carcasses of African prey animals [5, 6].
The
advent of stone tools as well as the appearance of stone-tool cut
marks on the
fossilized bones of prey animals suggests that early members of our
genus were
increasingly exploiting animal foods as a source of sustenance. This
dietary shift
from a predominantly plant based diet to one in which animal foods
became
increasingly important allowed for the relaxation of the selection
pressures that
had formerly constrained encephalization in Australopithecus species
[7, 8]."
http://www.indiana.edu/~origins/teach/P314/Bouri2.pdf
Page 628
"Fig. 2. Hominid modification to bovid bones
from the Hata Member. Photographs ©David L.
Brill 1999\Atlanta. White boxes show enlargement
size. (A) Successive enlargements illustrating
bone modiÞcations on a large bovids
right tibial midshaft (BOU-VP-11/14). Gray arrows
indicate direction of hammerstone impact
deduced from striae in percussion pits. Note
the large external conchoidal fakes driven off
by the distal percussor impacts and the adjacent
cut marks. These are the earliest documented
percussion marks made by hominids
who were presumably processing these bones
for contained fatty marrow. (B) Successive enlargements
illustrating cut marks on the medial
surface of a medium-sized alcelaphine bovids
left mandible (BOU-VP-12/11), presumably
made during tongue removal. Note the multiple
striae and shoulder marks in the SEM (used
with permission by G. Richards and B. Plowman).
These are the earliest documented cut
marks made by hominids."
23 APRIL 1999 VOL 284 SCIENCE www.sciencemag.org
Understand yet? |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: serious PAs say |
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On Nov 30, 6:27 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
<nothing yet>
FYI:
Aquatic Ape (non)Theory: Comments on a Recent Guest Lecture
by
Cameron M. Smith
PhD, Department of Archaeology
"If you were among the unfortunate crowd who spent a good amount of
time listening to visiting lecturer Elaine Morgan recently,
regarding the 'Aquatic Ape Theory', be advised of the following
points.
1. Aquatic Ape Theory has been scientifically reviewed, and, despite
what was presented at this lecture, it has been found to be severely
wanting. AAT is not a 'credible alternative theory'; it is what is
known as a post-hoc accommodative argument. Strictly speaking AAT does
not really have a coherent body of theory, only a few disassociated
(non)explanations for a few biological characteristics of the genus
Homo. People should be aware that AAT is NOT 'mainstream' or 'a viable
alternative' as claimed at the lecture.
2. AAT is poorly regarded because it is a poor explanatory device. It
is poorly regarded because it has been examined and found to be
invalid. It is not poorly regarded because of some scientific cover-up
or paranoia. It is not poorly regarded because scientists cannot
accept change. Scientific knowledge does change, all the time, and it
has been pointed out that science is the worst place to try to hide
anything because fraud will be exposed through experiment. AAT is
simply a theory that has been evaluated (and ditched) by most serious
anthropologists.
3. The presentation on 14 October is an embarrassment to Simon Fraser
University, and the sponsoring hosts. How this pop/crypto/science
'theory' was given equal billing with real research efforts is beyond
me. The fact that the 'theory' was included in a series of lectures
dealing with darwinian processes (The Institute of Humanities' 'Old
Minds and Bodies in New Worlds: A Darwinian Perspective on Our Past,
Present and Future' lectures) is a travesty, as AAT crumbles when
examined for internal darwinian logic. Unfortunately, having the
speaker lecture on AAT was akin to having SFU sponsor Erich von
Daniken to speak about spaceship depictions in Maya tombs.
Here>s a point to consider when evaluating AAT. I did not learn this
point from some academic overlord with an anti-AAT agenda; I learned
it while trying to avoid becoming crocodile food in Africa. When I
spent several months with a team at Lake Turkana, Kenya, investigating
some of the most important early hominid sites in the world, one of
our overriding concerns -- while swimming, bathing, or catching fish
with a net -- was to watch out for crocodiles in the shallows. A croc
can be on you, crush your legs in its jaws, and drag you under to
drown before you have time to screech for help.
The fact that crocodiles co-existed in time and space with early
hominids is a colossal blow to AAT, which does not explain what
advantages early humans would have gained by spending time in
crocodile-populated waters; an environment where they could not make
fires, throw stones or sticks, use other tools, or have any hope
whatever of escaping the most common predator. A troop of early
hominids wading in a lakeshore or swampy forest would best be
described as a crocodile banquet. The cute, feel-good images of babies
swimming freely in a pool, shown in the AAT video, have nothing to do
with the real situation of predator avoidance in Africa. Ask the
Dasenich or Turkana people who live around Lake Turkana: only visiting
maniacs swim in that lake.
There>s much else to say, but I have a 650-word limit. Please keep in
mind, the 'savanna hypothesis' has indeed been largely abandoned, but
that does NOT validate AAT a priori. Neither is AAT validated because
of the common sentiment that 'it is someone>s opinion, and everyone is
entitled to an opinion'. Opinion is not the same thing as scientific
theory.
The damage of this lecture was to those who came to the lecture
expecting, and possibly believing, that AAT was a viable body of
theory. It is not, and it does not deserve that label."
Cheers,
Cameron M. Smith |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: Re: serious PAs say |
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On Nov 30, 4:20 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote]SF:
Aquatic Ape (non)Theory: Comments on a Recent Guest Lecture
by Cameron M. Smith
:-D
now our little boy
[/quote]
Pervert answers....
[quote]relies on Mr.Smith...
[/quote]
Dr. Smith to you, wetloon.
[quote]
why not cite real PAs, my boy??
[/quote]
Pervert says....
[quote]
Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
[/quote]
Shows what a museum director knows about chimps... nothing.
Has this illiterate read Kano?????
Has he ever set foot in Africa?
Has he ever done one minute of original chimp research?
He needs to spend some time in the library with McGinn.
Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): “I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.”
Some wetloon throws food into a zoo moat, lacking crocs, and this is
supposed to mean something?
Takayoshi Kano 1992
The Last Ape: Pygmy Chimpanzee Behavior and Ecology.
Stanford University Press |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: Re: wetloons |
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On Nov 30, 5:37 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote]Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
[/quote]
Shows what a museum director knows about chimps... nothing.
Has this illiterate read Kano?????
Has he ever set foot in Africa?
Has he ever done one minute of original chimp research?
He needs to spend some time in the library with McGinn.
Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): “I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.”
Some wetloon throws food into a zoo moat, lacking crocs, and this is
supposed to mean something?
Takayoshi Kano 1992
The Last Ape: Pygmy Chimpanzee Behavior and Ecology.
Stanford University Press |
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Marc Verhaegen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Re: serious PAs say |
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SF:
[quote]Aquatic Ape (non)Theory: Comments on a Recent Guest Lecture
by Cameron M. Smith
[/quote]
:-D
now our little boy relies on Mr.Smith...
why not cite real PAs, my boy??
Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.²
Groves & Cameron 2004 ³Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.²
Wrangham 2005 ³Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.² ³Š the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.²
Alemseged 2006 ³I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment Š²
Thorpe et al. 2007 ³Š early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal contextŠ² |
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Marc Verhaegen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: savanna fools rely on Mr.Smith... |
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Op 01-12-2008 01:47, in artikel
298aede4-f934-417a-baa1-b81e690d0202@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com, Lee Olsen
<paleocity@hotmail.com> schreef:
[quote]On Nov 30, 4:20 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
SF:
Aquatic Ape (non)Theory: Comments on a Recent Guest Lecture
by Cameron M. Smith
:-D
now our little boy
Pervert answers....
relies on Mr.Smith...
Dr. Smith to you, wetloon.
[/quote]
our little boy quotes aother netloon
I quote Tobias, Stringer etc
Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.²
Groves & Cameron 2004 ³Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.²
Wrangham 2005 ³Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.² ³Š the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.²
Alemseged 2006 ³I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment Š²
Thorpe et al. 2007 ³Š early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal contextŠ² |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: wetloon Fools now say that Chris Stringer is literate... |
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On Dec 1, 5:18 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote]Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
[/quote]
Shows what a museum director knows about chimps... nothing.
Has this illiterate read Kano?????
Has he ever set foot in Africa?
Has he ever done one minute of original chimp research?
He needs to spend some time in the library with McGinn.
Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): “I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.”
Some wetloon throws food into a zoo moat, lacking crocs, and this is
supposed to mean something?
Takayoshi Kano 1992
The Last Ape: Pygmy Chimpanzee Behavior and Ecology.
Stanford University Press |
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Marc Verhaegen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Savanna Fools now say that Chris Stringer is illiterate... |
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[quote]Stringer 2001 ©øIn the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
Shows what a museum director knows about chimps... nothing.
Has this illiterate read Kano?????
Has he ever set foot in Africa?
Has he ever done one minute of original chimp research?
He needs to spend some time in the library with McGinn.
Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): ¡°I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.¡±
Some wetloon throws food into a zoo moat, lacking crocs, and this is
supposed to mean something?
Takayoshi Kano 1992
The Last Ape: Pygmy Chimpanzee Behavior and Ecology.
Stanford University Press
[/quote] |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: wetloon Fools now say that Chris Stringer is literate... |
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On Dec 1, 11:46 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote] Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
SF:
Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): “I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.”
yes, thanks, my little boy,
[/quote]
Says the pervert...
[quote]confirms our view
[/quote]
Yep, no littoral lifestyle for chimps or Homo...now you get it. |
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mclark
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:33 am Post subject: Re: wetloon Fools now say that Chris Stringer is literate... |
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On Dec 1, 1:46 pm, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
[quote] Stringer 2001 ³In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
[/quote]
Here>s the full quote --in a personal email to me.
"Mike, Thanks. I am afraid I don>t have a lot of time to spend on
this.
In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models for the
origins of
bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can facilitate
bipedal
locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal primates) . I
have
never said that this MUST have been the forcing mechanism in hominids
but
I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I argued in
my
Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the late
Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.
But
adapting to coastal living is, of course, not the same as living IN
the
water...Best Chris
Professor Chris Stringer, Head of Human Origins, Dept of
Palaeontology"
Why do you snip that last sentence in your cherry-picking, Marco?
Is it because you>re a liar and a fraud? Is that the reason?
Chris Stringer is NOT the wet ape apologist that Marco would
have you believe. Neither is Tobias. What did Tobias say
about his alleged support of the AAT, Marco? Try not to LIE, now.
(Another personal email to me which I will be glad to post --again)
[quote]SF:
Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): “I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.”
yes, thanks, my little boy, confirms our view
[/quote]
Really? The lies just ~roll~ out of your mouth, don>t they.... |
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Marc Verhaegen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: Re: wetloon Fools now say that Chris Stringer is literate... |
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[quote]Stringer 2001 ©øIn the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
[/quote]
SF:
[quote]Takayoshi Kano (1992:126): ¡°I have always observed them
knuckle-walking when on the ground, whether in a stream or
on the forest floor.¡±
[/quote]
yes, thanks, my little boy, confirms our view |
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Lee Olsen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Stringer needs to get his head on straight (was Re: wet |
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On Dec 2, 1:52 am, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhae...@skynet.be> wrote:
<snip>
Stringer (according to mclark):
[quote]In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models for the
origins of bipedalism
and have agreed that wading in water can facilitate bipedal
locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal primates) . I
have
never said that this MUST have been the forcing mechanism in hominids
but I do consider it plausible.
[/quote]
"plausible"? Stringer needs to get his head on straight.
It>s also just as "plausible" that I could win the lottery two times
in a row.
It is so close to zero that it is ridiculous to think that water could
have
played any role at all in the evolution of Homo>s obligate
bipedalism.
Here is a bit of that irrational thinking by a wetloon.
Algis Kuliukas May 13 2003 sci.anthropology.paleo
"Extant apes are pretty much 100% bipedal in water..."
If walking around in the water was such a big advantage, why aren>t
chimps bipedal also? Bears stand up in water also, so what?
http://www.realadventures.com/listingimages/1024/1024532/m_1024532b.jpg
What do you think mr. stringer, did walking upright in water cause
bears to evolve
bibedalism? Ever see a prairie dog?
http://www.jeffblaylock.com/window/photos/0181.jpg
Algis: "Going by video footage of chimps at Conkouati this was
probably
greatly exceeded. But the point is, of
course, that shallow water is the only condition that could
theoretically compel an ape to move bipedally."
"only condition"???? This guy is trying for an advanced degree?
The catch is, in the wild, chimps and G spend only a minuscule amount
of time
in the water walking bipedally, just like bears.
Sir Hardy claimed our ancestors would have spent up to 50%
of the time in the water in order to see an evolutionary
difference.
There was no advantage to walking and wading. Chimps (orangs, g)
spend a
lot of time where there is a lot more water to wade in than the areas
where early
Homo is found, they should have become bipedal also. Lots of trees
discourage
any reason to become bipedal, chimps, G, and orangs prove that, so
they didn>t
advance beyond the rudimentary form of bipedalism our common ancestor
already
inherited.
PBS showed a program where a (blind at birth) gibbon, standing with
both feet
on the ground and holding on to nothing, turned a back-flip and
landed a perfect 10.
The seeds for bipedalism have been around a long time in apes.
We know chimps have spent little time in the water in the last 3
million years because
it is water (Congo River) that has kept common chimps and bonobos
separated.
They know that spending too much time in the water will get you
killed. Chimps are smarter
than wetllons.
Of course Algis knew full well that any substrate and hand-carry use
will
produce spontaneous bipedalism in chimps. Mud, concrete, dirt,
savanna, fighting, or water will
produce the same results, if, they have something to carry (sugar
cane, oranges, tools etc).
Anyone working on an advanced degree, spending any time researching
chimps,
would have known this and he did.
We know early Homo was dragging a lot of rock long distances across
the savanna,
but there is no evidence at all for any appreciable utilization of
water, at least to the
extent Sir Hardy imagined.
All the evidence, like tools, cut-marked bones, reduction in molars,
C4 in teeth, even our intestines
and appendix show our ancestors were heavily dependent on animal
products, not wading for
clams in shallow water (no evidence for middens).
http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2007/01/17/chimpanzee.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/2v3m6d
http://www.flatrock.org.nz/topics/animals/assets/chimp_shot.jpg |
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Marc Verhaegen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: profligate urinator (Re: wetloon Fools now say that Chris St |
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[quote]? Stringer 2001 ? ?©øIn the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion
Here>s the full quote --in a personal email to me.
[/quote]
placing personal emails on the net...
[quote]"Mike, Thanks. I am afraid I don>t have a lot of time to spend on
this.
In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models for the
origins of bipedalism
and have agreed that wading in water can facilitate bipedal
locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal primates) . I
have
never said that this MUST have been the forcing mechanism in hominids
but I do consider it plausible.
As for coastal colonisation, I argued in my
Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the late
Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.
But
adapting to coastal living is, of course, not the same as living IN
the water...Best Chris
Professor Chris Stringer, Head of Human Origins, Dept of
Palaeontology"
Why do you snip that last sentence in your cherry-picking, Marco?
[/quote]
My little boy, we all know that - why do you include it: Is it because
you>re a liar and a fraud? Is that the reason? Chris Stringer is NOT the
dry ape apologist that Savanna Fools would have you believe. Neither is
Tobias. What did Tobias say about his alleged support of the AAT, SF? Try
not to LIE, now.
Here it is:
Tobias 1995 ¡°We were all profoundly and unutterably wrong! ¡¦ All the
former savannah supporters (including myself) must now swallow our earlier
words ¡¦¡±
Wood 1996 ¡°the ¡®savannah¡¯ hypothesis of human origins, in which the
cooling begat the savannah and the savannah begat humanity, is now
discredited¡±
Stringer 1997 ¡°One of the strong points about the aquatic theory is in
explaining the origin of bipedality. If our ancestors did go into the water,
that would forced them to walk upright ¡¦¡±
Tobias 1998 ¡°Bamford identified fossil vines or lianas of Dichapetalum
in the same Member 4: such vines hang from forest trees and would not be
expected in open savannah. The team at Makapansgat found floral and faunal
evidence that the layers containing Australopithecus reflected forest or
forest margin conditions. From Hadar, in Ethiopia, where ¡®Lucy¡¯ was found,
and from Aramis in Ethiopia, where Tim White¡¯s team found Ardipithecus
ramidus ¡¦ well-wooded and even forested conditions were inferred from the
fauna accompanying the hominid fossils. All the fossil evidence adds up to
the small-brained, bipedal hominids of four to 2.5 Ma having lived in a
woodland or forest niche, not savannah.¡± ¡°¡¦ if ever our earliest ancestors
were savannah dwellers, we must have been the worst, the most profligate
urinators there¡±
Stringer 2001 ¡°In the past I have agreed that we lack plausible models
for the origins of bipedalism and have agreed that wading in water can
facilitate bipedal locomotion (as observed in other normally quadrupedal
primates). I have never said that this must have been the forcing mechanism
in hominids, but I do consider it plausible. As for coastal colonisation, I
argued in my Nature News & Views last year that this was an event in the
late Pleistocene that may have facilitated the spread of modern humans.¡±
Groves & Cameron 2004 ¡°Nor can we exclude the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis.
Elaine Morgan has long argued that many aspects of human anatomy are best
explained as a legacy of a semiaquatic phase in the proto-human trajectory,
and this includes upright posture to cope with increased water depth as our
ancestors foraged farther and further from the lake or seashore.¡±
Wrangham 2005 ¡°Here I follow the conventional assumption that hominins
began in the savanna.¡± ¡°¡¦ the composition of the Okavango as a network of
islands could favor the evolution of bipedalism. For those who envisage
bipedalism as facilitated by the need to traverse or exploit aquatic
environments, an inland delta that generates low islands termitogenically or
hydrodynamically offers rich scenarios.¡±
Alemseged 2006 ¡°I believe we should just put the savannah theory aside.
I think they basically became biped while they were living in a wooded,
covered environment ¡¦¡±
Thorpe et al. 2007 ¡°¡¦ early hominins occupied woodland environments, not
open or even bush-savannah environments (such as sites including Allia Bay,
Aramis, Assa Issie and now Laetoli) ... they retained long grasping
forelimbs, which are more obviously relevant in an arboreal context¡¦¡±
> (Another personal email to me which I will be glad to post --again) |
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